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Author Topic: Directional Omni shield Control (again)  (Read 1948 times)

Ranakastrasz

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Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« on: May 30, 2019, 05:30:16 PM »

This has been suggested and rejected on several occations, so the only reason I am suggesting it again, for the last time (That I will bother, unless I get into modding and make a mockup, anyway) is that there is a Starcraft II mod that implements it, and it works fine, control scheme wise. Given there were arguments about it being too complex or something, given that it actually works fine anyway, I thought I might as well try again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbwVmq0X2Yo&t=740s

Allow player to set an angle for the omnishields to face, which they hold, Allow them to target an enemy ship and have the shield face said ship.
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Nick XR

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 07:16:01 PM »

Is the issue that you can't manipulate the shields with the mouse because you're using the aim-at-cursor option?

If so, would it be reasonable that the turn left and right keys instead manipulate the shield (instead of ship facing) when the aim-at-cursor option is active?

Morbo513

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 10:16:10 PM »

Hold-button to control shield orientation with mouse (Same as holding shift does for ship heading), release for it to stay in place
Toggle for absolute/relative direction
Button/toggle for orient-to-target
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Ranakastrasz

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 02:10:04 PM »

Is the issue that you can't manipulate the shields with the mouse because you're using the aim-at-cursor option?

If so, would it be reasonable that the turn left and right keys instead manipulate the shield (instead of ship facing) when the aim-at-cursor option is active?
Yes, that is the issue. You can reverse the controls, but you lose all precision with the ship's rotation as a result.

No, that wouldn't work, because those keys are used for strafing in said situation, which is very important.
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I think is easy for Simba and Mufasa sing the Circle of Life when they're on the top of the food chain, I bet the zebras hate that song.

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SafariJohn

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 05:51:00 PM »

If so, would it be reasonable that the turn left and right keys instead manipulate the shield (instead of ship facing) when the aim-at-cursor option is active?
No, that wouldn't work, because those keys are used for strafing in said situation, which is very important.

I think he meant Q and E, which are used to strafe (not turn) in not-turn-to-cursor mode.
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Alex

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 05:57:40 PM »

Yeah, that's what I thought Nick meant, too. That seems like it'd be hard to use and would require pressing the key down for a good bit to get what you want. Also requires you to use turn-to-cursor while you're doing this...

But solutions using the mouse don't really work well regardless of whether you're aiming at the cursor or not, because it really messes with your camera. That's the reason it "works" in the video in the OP - the camera controls are not the same.

I've tried using ctrl-right-click to lock the shields to a relative facing, btw, and spent some time with it trying to get used to it. It didn't feel useful at all, unfortunately, and *did* feel really finicky and annoying to use.
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Ranakastrasz

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 06:09:15 PM »

True enough, I have no doubt it would feel awkward for a while. However, we NEED a way to control omnishield and accurately rotate the ship at the same time. I don't honestly care how it works, as long as a method exists.

Could we at least get an API for omnishield control override so someone can make a mockup mod?
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I think is easy for Simba and Mufasa sing the Circle of Life when they're on the top of the food chain, I bet the zebras hate that song.

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Alex

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 06:26:17 PM »

Since these already existed due to my various attempts mucking with it, sure:

Added to ShipAPI:
   Vector2f getShieldTarget();
   void setShieldTargetOverride(float x, float y);
      Sets direction for omni shield to face
      Needs to be called every frame



However, we NEED a way to control omnishield and accurately rotate the ship at the same time.

Well, a lot of the time ship damage is a matter of flux, so taking a few seconds to shield while not firing doesn't necessarily even mean a decrease in overall damage. That's not to say that having a method to do this wouldn't be nice; I think we just differ in how necessary that is. In my personal playing, I've never found it to be a truly pressing concern - but I certainly understand and respect that opinions on this will differ.
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Goumindong

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 07:45:10 PM »

The proper answer to omni shield control is one of two things

1) shield defaults to the position of the targeted ship and attempts to follow it.

2) ships that have omni shields are ships that tend/are intended to be flown without strafing behavior.

A toggle between the two modes would not be bad. Though it could just be targeting itself.  If you have a target the shield follows it. If you do not it follows your cursor

Edit: ai behavior could be unchanged
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 07:47:23 PM by Goumindong »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2019, 09:19:13 PM »

I definitely routinely notice situations where I am taking fire from a different direction than I want to move/shoot (all three directions my different in some cases). One way of solving that is to let the player independent control the direction of motion, weapons and shields. Alternatively, you can let the AI handle one or more. Rather than give the player another thing to simultaneously control, have an auto shield switch that lets the AI handle shields similar to auto firing weapons.
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Nick XR

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 09:40:23 PM »

Ah OK.  Sorry for the poor description, I'm unfamiliar with the issue as don't use the turn to cursor because I'm apparently an alien or it's all the time playing various asteroids clones with only a keyboard in the 90s...

For clarity to make sure I'm understanding, you're suggesting the shield modes should be:
* current behavior (shield follows mouse)
* shield facing controlled by keys
* shield tracks selected target

Or would just having shield track the selected target be 99% of what you need? (This is what I do in my coop mod to get around lack of a second mouse)

Megas

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2019, 10:02:33 AM »

Ah OK.  Sorry for the poor description, I'm unfamiliar with the issue as don't use the turn to cursor because I'm apparently an alien or it's all the time playing various asteroids clones with only a keyboard in the 90s...

For clarity to make sure I'm understanding, you're suggesting the shield modes should be:
* current behavior (shield follows mouse)
* shield facing controlled by keys
* shield tracks selected target

Or would just having shield track the selected target be 99% of what you need? (This is what I do in my coop mod to get around lack of a second mouse)
I do not use turn-to-cursor myself either.  I use so-called tank controls in Starsector because it controls similarly to other games I played.

I miss classic Wolf's omni-shield.  It took some practice to use omni-shield while piloting Wolf, but it was worth it, at least back when soloing enemy ships was easier.
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Oodle

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2019, 11:05:56 PM »

What if when in turn-to-cursor mode your shields rotated around you in relation to the cursors vertical movement away and towards the ship? You could just tap shift again or cycle shields to rest your shield to front facing. If you keep the mouse movement to about an on-screen inch for the 360* bounds it doesn't really affect the camera panning. I could see it being hard to guess where the epicenter of the shield is when trying to block shots by shield activation cycling to negate shield rotation without some sort of indicator.
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Goumindong

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2019, 01:10:13 PM »

That would be terible. Probably easier to just make the shield follow a targeted ship if one is targeted and use default behavior otherwise. Not having easy controls to block missiles would be the cost of doing business in that mode
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TiberQ

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Re: Directional Omni shield Control (again)
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2020, 03:28:20 PM »

Could we utilize the mouse scroll button instead?
Scroll down for omni shield togo clockwise, and scroll up for the omni arc togo counter-clockwise.*
This should let u keep the ''point weapons to mouse pointer'' intact, and is close the the lower raise-shield right mouse button.

While im at it.. the middle mouse button scroll, can also be pushed, assigning venting to that should make the whole package intuitive.

*smaller arcs on shield should have more precision to tank incoming specific things... like reapers. While larger shield arcs could be 30degree or even more per scroll tick.

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