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Author Topic: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs  (Read 768801 times)

Sundog

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1020 on: January 11, 2023, 04:34:56 PM »

Thanks for understanding!  :)

darkwarrior1000

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1021 on: January 14, 2023, 08:10:13 PM »

In the most recent update the text for trait sidegrade suggestions that describes what a particular trait does has turned a very dark gray. This makes it difficult to read since there isn't much contrast between the dark gray text and the dark background of the intel screen menus. Could you revert it to white or use some other bright color so it stands out against the intel screen background?
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1022 on: January 15, 2023, 08:10:09 AM »

Yeah, I think that would be better. I'll change it. Not sure why I chose gray for that.

StahnAileron

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1023 on: January 15, 2023, 04:23:30 PM »

Say, have you considered adding a HullMod for 0 (zero) OP called something like "Fixed Specs" or similar so ships stop asking for side-grades if they have a Trait set the player is happy with? Now that I have a far better chance at actually seeing and resolving the requests, I find myself resolving a lot of side-grades I don't want to change. (It's mainly for non-combat/logistics vessels that don't have many traits yet.)

NOTE: I have changed a few things about the mod (bumped up the trait count), which is probably why it's apparently favoring side-grades for my lesser-known utility ships (more side-grades to choose from), but I imagine that at some point, players will have a ship with traits they'll what to keep as-is. I also think it might help focus side-grades onto ships the player does what to have, though maybe it'll take longer between side-grade opportunities (for the same ship) with the smaller pool of eligible ships.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1024 on: January 15, 2023, 05:35:54 PM »

Hmm... I wouldn't want to use a hullmod for it, but I suppose I could make it possible to prevent further sidegrade suggestions for specific ships by adding a new button to the sidegrade suggestion intel. I'll add that to the list of things to consider for future updates.

StahnAileron

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1025 on: January 15, 2023, 09:00:38 PM »

The only reason I mentioned the option as a hullmod is because it would be easy to turn on/off for fleet management. This would make it possible to stop side-grades for utility/logistic ships that take a bit longer to accrue traits (but still earn the trait ranks) so you can concentrate on combat ships whose side-grades might be more important to swap.

Though if you want to make it a permanent decision... I can see that. Though I'd probably advocate for a small boost in trait power if you lock them in.

Or just an option to defer side-grades for a particular ship for like a year or so. I just don't know how much flexibility you either want to give a player or are even able to give them via the intel screen.

Or, if you're feeling generous, both: some method to pause side-grade suggestions, then when a player feels like they have the right traits for a ship, lock them in and maybe get a Rank bonus (in terms of effectiveness) or something.

"Fixed Specs/Locked Design: The ship's crew can no longer tinker with the ship's systems at will. Since they can't changes the specs anymore, they've learned to exploit their ship's quirks to the fullest. Effectiveness of all traits increased by 1 Rank."

Just throwing out ideas. I just hope it's something worthwhile to/for you given the effort needed to implement it. (Assuming any of it is a good idea to begin with.)
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1026 on: January 15, 2023, 11:16:22 PM »

I do think it's a worthwhile goal to give players more ways to prevent sidegrade suggestions they don't care about, although I don't consider it a priority. The trouble is that it's simply very difficult to implement an interface that's well suited for that purpose. A 0 OP hullmod would work, as you suggest, but that would have several downsides (chiefly, that a lot of people find that kind of workaround off-putting). A button in the intel panel would have disadvantages, too, like the permanence of it, as you pointed out. I'm not aware of a solution that I think would be worthwhile, at the moment, so for now I'll just sit on the issue until/unless that changes.

Wyvern

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1027 on: January 16, 2023, 12:00:51 AM »

Obviously*, the optimal** solution here is to introduce a third, story-point-costing option to the bar event where you talk to your officers, where you get to say "No, that ship is perfect as she is."

* Not actually obvious.
** Probably not optimal, either.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

StahnAileron

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1028 on: January 16, 2023, 12:25:12 AM »

I do think it's a worthwhile goal to give players more ways to prevent sidegrade suggestions they don't care about, although I don't consider it a priority. The trouble is that it's simply very difficult to implement an interface that's well suited for that purpose.[Emphasis Added] A 0 OP hullmod would work, as you suggest, but that would have several downsides (chiefly, that a lot of people find that kind of workaround off-putting). A button in the intel panel would have disadvantages, too, like the permanence of it, as you pointed out. I'm not aware of a solution that I think would be worthwhile, at the moment, so for now I'll just sit on the issue until/unless that changes.
I figure that would be the case given the game's state and current design priorities. It'd be nice if you could hack into the Fleet screen and add another ship-state button akin to "Stop Repairs" or "Mothball". Wonder if there's an API for that or if Alex would float the idea of adding one if there isn't... (Because now that I think about, there are a few things I would love to have added to the fleet management screen...)
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1029 on: January 16, 2023, 07:17:04 AM »

I think the best way to go about it might be to add a "prevent sidegrade suggestions" button to sidegrade intel items that would also prevent them from expiring and add a button for re-enabling suggestions.

Obviously*, the optimal** solution here is to introduce a third, story-point-costing option to the bar event where you talk to your officers, where you get to say "No, that ship is perfect as she is."

* Not actually obvious.
** Probably not optimal, either.
Yeah, giving some sort of order is the direction I'm thinking in, too, but I'd prefer for an option like this to be more freely available, and to be reversible.

It'd be nice if you could hack into the Fleet screen and add another ship-state button akin to "Stop Repairs" or "Mothball". Wonder if there's an API for that or if Alex would float the idea of adding one if there isn't...
I'm fairly certain the API doesn't provide a method for that. Might be worth suggesting. I'm sure it could be done anyway, but probably not in a way I'd be willing to implement.

StahnAileron

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1030 on: January 16, 2023, 12:14:37 PM »

I think the best way to go about it might be to add a "prevent sidegrade suggestions" button to sidegrade intel items that would also prevent them from expiring and add a button for re-enabling suggestions.

I can see that, given what we can work with now. Would you need to add another category to the Intel filters to make it easier to track those decisions? I currently look under "Important" to find side-grade requests. Don't recall if there was another category I could find them under.

It'd be nice if you could hack into the Fleet screen and add another ship-state button akin to "Stop Repairs" or "Mothball". Wonder if there's an API for that or if Alex would float the idea of adding one if there isn't...
I'm fairly certain the API doesn't provide a method for that. Might be worth suggesting. I'm sure it could be done anyway, but probably not in a way I'd be willing to implement.

If it has to be done on the modder's side, sound like something for the likes of LazyLib rather than your mod. It seems like something all the modders could use if they want/need it.

Oh, any thoughts on adding an option to make the Trait and Loyalty multipliers multiplicative with each other rather than additive for us tinkerers? Or do you prefer the flat additive feature for a reason?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 12:27:12 PM by StahnAileron »
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1031 on: January 17, 2023, 05:25:01 PM »

Would you need to add another category to the Intel filters to make it easier to track those decisions? I currently look under "Important" to find side-grade requests. Don't recall if there was another category I could find them under.
They're under the "fleet log" category. I try to avoid using new intel tags since that real estate is already very cluttered.

Oh, any thoughts on adding an option to make the Trait and Loyalty multipliers multiplicative with each other rather than additive for us tinkerers? Or do you prefer the flat additive feature for a reason?
Are you requesting a setting to make loyalty multiply the effects of traits instead of adding to them? If so, I'm afraid it's not in the cards. Options that allow variables to be adjusted is one thing, but adding alternative formulas compounds the work required to test and maintain the code by quite a bit. Generally I prefer for numbers to interact in additive ways because it makes things cleaner (in terms of both UI and game mechanics) and easier to understand/explain.

StahnAileron

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1032 on: January 17, 2023, 11:23:18 PM »

They're under the "fleet log" category. I try to avoid using new intel tags since that real estate is already very cluttered.
"Cluttered" is putting it lightly when you have a sizeable number of mods installed... ::)

Are you requesting a setting to make loyalty multiply the effects of traits instead of adding to them? If so, I'm afraid it's not in the cards. Options that allow variables to be adjusted is one thing, but adding alternative formulas compounds the work required to test and maintain the code by quite a bit. Generally I prefer for numbers to interact in additive ways because it makes things cleaner (in terms of both UI and game mechanics) and easier to understand/explain.
Sure thing. I get it if you're trying to stick with "Simple is best." ;D

Thanks for giving me your time and all the effort put into the mod! :D
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1033 on: January 18, 2023, 02:40:47 AM »

Thanks for giving me your time and all the effort put into the mod! :D
And thanks for your feedback! It means a lot :)

Fordo

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Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #1034 on: January 18, 2023, 04:27:51 PM »

Added ships lost by the player to the pool of possible derelicts for famous derelict salvage missions
I think I've encountered an issue/bug with this new feature. Intact ships I've left in storage at the Abandoned Terraforming Platform at Asharu are being considered "destroyed" or "lost" by the mod, so I will sometimes get bar storytellers telling me about where to find them in some far off nebula... and when I dismiss the mission and go back to storage to check on the ship in question, it's still there, but heavily damaged and with new D-mods as if it were the derelict.

I'd tried doing one of these salvage missions on a unique ship, hoping through oversight it would somehow entreat me to a copy (so I would then have two), but it just pulled the exact same ship out of storage and made the whole journey a bit silly.
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