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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs  (Read 768386 times)

Sundog

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Starship Legends 2.1.2
Not save compatible with versions prior to 2.0.0

Fixed an error that could occur when choosing traits for ships with undefined defensive systems
Fixed a few typos and grammatical errors
Fixed a few cases where crew-related phrasing could be used for automated ships
Fixed the possibility of gawking spacers to join automated ships
Improved transparency for the cost of agreeing to some bar events, especially where loyalty may be lost
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 09:38:53 PM by Sundog »
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Twilight Sentinel

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Is it possible to set a minimum ship rep score for the mod to start to kick in?  Nothing obvious stands out in the settings file.  I was just hoping to set it so that the majority of my ships have no modifiers on them until they've been in my fleet for a good while or something really noteworthy happens to them.  As well as have all my logistics ships completely stock since they're not doing any fighting and last time I tried the mod I got rather frustrated with freshly bought 0-d mod ships getting significant hits to their cargo capacities or consumption values.
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darkwarrior1000

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I've noticed some things that'd I'd like explained to me. It seems that different ship sizes have different weights to them in the trait rerolls. I get suggestions for frigates more often that not. It might just be weird rng. More importantly is the same ship can get two trait rerolls in a row. I have a tempest in my fleet with an officer and that thing gets nearly 1/3 of the trait reroll suggestions. one time it even gave me the same suggestion twice in a row. beyond that, some ships simply never get reroll suggestions. My flagship is an eradicator P and I've never had any suggestions to reroll the traits on that thing for 5 ingame years with the average day interval for suggestions set to 10. I tried removing all ships from my fleet except for a phaeton and it and then I set some other officer to pilot it but I guess 2 ships is too few to trigger trait rerolls. It's just that all the sidegrade suggestions go to the same ships and I'm not quite sure what to do. I've had a pair of centurions for a while and they've got over a dozen rerolls between the 2 of them but my flagship has had none for a long time. Do you know why that would be?
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Freakycrafter

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Hey, I was wondering if there is any way to adjust the amount of traits per tier your ships could get like in the older version or if you're planning to add it back in if it wasn't. I really miss my ships with all the reputations after updating the mod :D
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Onoya

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I found it, thx!
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Sundog

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Hi all, sorry for the late replies. Just got back from travelling.


Is it possible to set a minimum ship rep score for the mod to start to kick in?  Nothing obvious stands out in the settings file.  I was just hoping to set it so that the majority of my ships have no modifiers on them until they've been in my fleet for a good while or something really noteworthy happens to them.
It sounds like you'll want to increase the amount of xp required for a ship to become notable. You can do that in the options file by increasing "xpRequiredOnAverage" for the notable reputation tier.  You can also adjust the rate at which different ships earn xp by adjusting the various "xpMult" settings. (You can prevent civilian ships from getting any traits this way.) Note that in versions 2 and later player level increases xp gain by quite a bit (up to 10 times at max level).


I've noticed some things that'd I'd like explained to me. It seems that different ship sizes have different weights to them in the trait rerolls. I get suggestions for frigates more often that not. It might just be weird rng. More importantly is the same ship can get two trait rerolls in a row. I have a tempest in my fleet with an officer and that thing gets nearly 1/3 of the trait reroll suggestions. one time it even gave me the same suggestion twice in a row. beyond that, some ships simply never get reroll suggestions. My flagship is an eradicator P and I've never had any suggestions to reroll the traits on that thing for 5 ingame years with the average day interval for suggestions set to 10. I tried removing all ships from my fleet except for a phaeton and it and then I set some other officer to pilot it but I guess 2 ships is too few to trigger trait rerolls. It's just that all the sidegrade suggestions go to the same ships and I'm not quite sure what to do. I've had a pair of centurions for a while and they've got over a dozen rerolls between the 2 of them but my flagship has had none for a long time. Do you know why that would be?
This mostly comes down to weird RNG.  Sounds like I might need to change things up to ensure more even distribution.  The likelihood for a ship to be chosen for trait suggestions is proportional to the number of traits it has, with civilian ships being half as likely to be chosen.  There are no other factors.  So, for example, an onslaught with 8 traits would be 4 times as likely to be chosen as a dram with 4 traits.  Trait suggestions are less likely to occur at all if you have few notable ships in your fleet, but it can still occur rarely as long as there is at least one ship in your fleet with at least one trait.  If the total number of traits in your fleet from all ships is 50 or more, then new trait suggestions will be as likely as possible.
I know it's not a real solution, but if you really want to you can use console commands to change traits to whatever you want.


Hey, I was wondering if there is any way to adjust the amount of traits per tier your ships could get like in the older version or if you're planning to add it back in if it wasn't. I really miss my ships with all the reputations after updating the mod :D
There is, actually, although it's not properly tested yet. There is a "secret setting" called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the options file to change the number of traits you get at each tier.  If you want ships to get 6 traits at each tier then you could edit the options file to look like this at the end:
Quote
   "showNewTraitNotifications":true,
   "removeAllDataAndFeatures":false,
   
   "traitPairsPerTier":3,
}


I found it, thx!
Glad to hear it!  So do you think the reputation hullmod was there right after the battle, or do you think it was added later on?  Just trying to decide if it's something I should continue to investigate.

Droll

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Hey, I was wondering if there is any way to adjust the amount of traits per tier your ships could get like in the older version or if you're planning to add it back in if it wasn't. I really miss my ships with all the reputations after updating the mod :D
There is, actually, although it's not properly tested yet. There is a "secret setting" called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the options file to change the number of traits you get at each tier.  If you want ships to get 6 traits at each tier then you could edit the options file to look like this at the end:
Quote
   "showNewTraitNotifications":true,
   "removeAllDataAndFeatures":false,
   
   "traitPairsPerTier":3,
}

Be careful about doing this on an ongoing save. I just did it and although traitPairsPerTier was set to 4. For some reason each tier on my ships has 8 traits instead of 4. Note that I had ships which had achieved legendary status in my campaign.
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Sundog

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Right, so unlike in versions prior to 2.0, the setting is traitPairsPerTier instead of traitsPerTier, meaning ships will get that many pairs of traits each tier (so twice that number of traits). This limitation was necessary due to fundamental changes in how trait growth works in 2.0+, and the reason I removed traitsPerTier in the first place. For ongoing saves, changing this setting won't change the traits a ship has at all, but will change its tier to match the number of traits it has, which is why your legendary ships with 8 traits became notable ships with 8 traits.

Droll

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Right, so unlike in versions prior to 2.0, the setting is traitPairsPerTier instead of traitsPerTier, meaning ships will get that many pairs of traits each tier (so twice that number of traits). This limitation was necessary due to fundamental changes in how trait growth works in 2.0+, and the reason I removed traitsPerTier in the first place. For ongoing saves, changing this setting won't change the traits a ship has at all, but will change its tier to match the number of traits it has, which is why your legendary ships with 8 traits became notable ships with 8 traits.

Oh I probably should have read the damn parameter more closely lol. Yeah in that case nothing weird is happening, it's like the Sith version of 1.0. Always 2 there are.
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Sundog

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Yeah in that case nothing weird is happening, it's like the Sith version of 1.0. Always 2 there are.
Yeah, pretty much  ;D

Freakycrafter

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There is, actually, although it's not properly tested yet. There is a "secret setting" called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the options file to change the number of traits you get at each tier.  If you want ships to get 6 traits at each tier then you could edit the options file to look like this at the end:
Quote
   "showNewTraitNotifications":true,
   "removeAllDataAndFeatures":false,
   
   "traitPairsPerTier":3,
}
Nice, thank you so much  ;D
I used to play with as many traits as possible with the old version and thought it just got removed, maybe you should keep the option in the config by default and just keep it on 1 by default.
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darkwarrior1000

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Quote
This mostly comes down to weird RNG.  Sounds like I might need to change things up to ensure more even distribution.  The likelihood for a ship to be chosen for trait suggestions is proportional to the number of traits it has, with civilian ships being half as likely to be chosen.  There are no other factors.  So, for example, an onslaught with 8 traits would be 4 times as likely to be chosen as a dram with 4 traits.  Trait suggestions are less likely to occur at all if you have few notable ships in your fleet, but it can still occur rarely as long as there is at least one ship in your fleet with at least one trait.  If the total number of traits in your fleet from all ships is 50 or more, then new trait suggestions will be as likely as possible.
I know it's not a real solution, but if you really want to you can use console commands to change traits to whatever you want.
I guess it really is just weird rng. most of my ships were all well-known or famous at the time so it certainly wasn't an issue of those frigates having a disproportionate chance of being chosen for a perk reroll. That aside, I really like the bar events and would like to increase their frequency. they seem to be related to the trait sidegrades by the look of things but I'm no exactly sure how. is it related to the average additional bar events setting by any chance? Also, I have display ship xp set to true(both options) but I'm not quite sure where to view it. doesn't seem like it comes up in the reports either.
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Twilight Sentinel

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I'm noticing that crew loyalty is very hard to build up, but extremely easy to lose.  It takes a good half dozen clean fights to get a level of loyalty, but losing a ship once will quickly drain that loyalty by one or two levels.  And yet, in most cases you can just wipe away that issue by swapping officers.  Unless you're playing excessively cautiously, you generally will lose a ship every few battles.  The AI just doesn't take that good of care of your ships.  The penalty for disloyalty feels disproportionate relative to your typical D mod or the benefits for positive loyalty.  You cannot really build ships or characters to address this.  Ships like those with rugged construction, skills like hull restoration, or just straight up paying for restorations can address D-mods.

It also isn't all that common to keep officers on the same ship long enough to build up loyalty early game.  So I tended to not engage with the system that much except to swap out disloyal officers after one of my ships got popped or I got into a tough fight.

On the flip side, the system does not work well with AI run ships.  AI controlled ships have fearless AI, so they're more likely than any other ship you have to be destroyed.  On top of that, you cannot just swap officers to remove disloyalty.  Any core will have the same loyalty status as any other core.
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Sundog

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Nice, thank you so much  ;D
No problem  :)

I used to play with as many traits as possible with the old version and thought it just got removed, maybe you should keep the option in the config by default and just keep it on 1 by default.
That's exactly what I'll do once I'm confident that the setting works properly with values other than 1


I guess it really is just weird rng. most of my ships were all well-known or famous at the time so it certainly wasn't an issue of those frigates having a disproportionate chance of being chosen for a perk reroll. That aside, I really like the bar events and would like to increase their frequency. they seem to be related to the trait sidegrades by the look of things but I'm no exactly sure how.
One of the events is functionally identical to the sidegrade opportunities that randomly pop up, just with additional prose. That's the only way they're related, really.

is it related to the average additional bar events setting by any chance?
The "averageAdditionalBarEvents" setting will increase the total number of events you're likely to see when visiting a bar. To make a particular type of starship legends event more likely you'll want to change the values in the "barEventChanceMultipliers" section.

Also, I have display ship xp set to true(both options) but I'm not quite sure where to view it. doesn't seem like it comes up in the reports either.
You can see XP details in the reputation hullmod tooltip. You should also be able to see a new column in the battle reports that shows the amount of XP each ship earned from the battle.


I'm noticing that crew loyalty is very hard to build up, but extremely easy to lose.
Thanks for the feedback!  I agree with a lot of it, but there are a few things about the loyalty system that I don't do a very good job of explaining anywhere.  The main thing is that it requires exponentially more XP for loyalty to improve at higher loyalty, making it difficult to achieve high loyalty levels, but very easy to recover from low loyalty levels. (At least, that's the goal.)
Loyalty LevelXP Required to Improve
Mutinous800
Openly Insubordinate4000
Insubordinate20000
Doubtful100000
Indifferent500000
Confident1500000
Loyal4500000
I tried to balance this so that players of average skill will generally keep most of their ships somewhere between insubordinate and loyal.  Unfortunately, that's a very difficult thing to do without a significant amount of data to analyze, so it's bound to be off.  Different playstyles also complicate this.  Another related problem is that loyalty is harder to maintain early game due to smaller battles yielding less XP.  This is something I want to address at some point, but I haven't settled on a solution yet.

Loyalty reduction can also be reduced or even negated under the right circumstances.  Weak ships that participate in battles involving strong opponents are far less likely to lose loyalty, as well as ships with any hullmod or skill that reduces crew casualties (e.g. Reiniforced Bukheads, Damage Control, Containment Procedures)

I know all that doesn't address every point you brought up in spite of being rather longwinded and rambley, but I do appreciate you taking the time to give feedback, and I'll keep it in mind when I consider future changes  :)

darkwarrior1000

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You can see XP details in the reputation hullmod tooltip. You should also be able to see a new column in the battle reports that shows the amount of XP each ship earned from the battle.

this is all that comes up in the tooltip. I don't see anything about xp in the post battle reports either.
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