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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs  (Read 768467 times)

Sundog

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #705 on: April 18, 2021, 08:35:39 AM »

Yes, that's normal. By default there's a flat 50% chance for new traits to be negative for civilian ships. The option to change it is "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"

Farya

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #706 on: April 18, 2021, 09:49:38 AM »

Why was it made this way in first place? This honestly just makes running fleet with civilian ships not very efficient in long run as you will have to replace your civilian ships eventually due to them amassing bad reputation. Or at least storing them at your colony for some time.
Maybe it should be tied to actual non-combat activities instead? Like having your cargo holds full or overfull for some time, suffering/not suffering accidents during salvaging and such would affect the reputation of your civilian ships. If your civilian ship suffer from storms it might also possibly affect them in a way.
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Tale

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #707 on: April 18, 2021, 10:09:56 AM »

Hi, if i wanna get traits only when my ships is in the battle regardless other effects like moving from planet to planet, storms atc. so this ignoreAllMaluses":false setting must be set like true ?

thanks
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #708 on: April 18, 2021, 11:36:10 AM »

Hi, if i wanna get traits only when my ships is in the battle regardless other effects like moving from planet to planet, storms atc. so this ignoreAllMaluses":false setting must be set like true ?
No, that will make it so your ships only ever get good traits. It sounds like you want to change "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips" to 0. That will prevent civilian ships from gaining traits from experience earned outside of battle. Hyperspace storms and travel have no influence on traits.

Why was it made this way in first place? This honestly just makes running fleet with civilian ships not very efficient in long run as you will have to replace your civilian ships eventually due to them amassing bad reputation. Or at least storing them at your colony for some time.
I chose a default of a 50% chance for new traits for civilian ships being negative because I try to prevent this mod (with default settings) from changing the overall difficulty of the game more than absolutely necessary. I think it's rude to publish mods that change the difficulty of games unless it's obvious or explicitly stated that it does so. So I put a lot of effort into trying to maintain balance. In spite of that, traits for civilian ships still make the game slightly easier, because you can choose to keep the ones with traits you like and sell or reset the ones with traits you dislike.

I understand why this mod might attract a lot of people who don't care whether or not it makes the game easier, but that's one of the reasons I support settings. The real problem is that those settings aren't accessible enough.

captinjoehenry

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #709 on: April 18, 2021, 03:29:58 PM »

Yeah, that's not ideal. Sounds like a lot of your ships are stuck in a kind of mediocrity limbo: they can't get new negative traits because they never suffer damage in battle, and they can't get new positive ones because their ratings aren't high enough to justify having 100% good traits (this only kicks in after the first three traits). I expect that this situation would be common for skilled players who are very careful to protect their ships.

Not sure I'd call this a bug, but it's certainly not ideal. I think I'll change it so that instead of allowing the first three traits to ignore the need for a suitable rating there will be a chance to allow it that diminishes based on the number of traits. That will allow ships like yours to continue to improve their perfect reputations, just at a reduced rate.

There are ways to get around it by editing the settings file, but there's no setting that allows you to only prevent this specific behavior. You might want to just increase baseRating or choose one of the "recommended option presets" from the OP.

The only way they get more than that is if they pick up a negative trait which then can get flipped to a positive one.
Flipped? Not sure what you mean.

What preset would you recommend?  The OP one?  The immersion one?  As I'm not sure which would lessen the issue.  Or should I just bump up the base rating by a good bit?
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #710 on: April 18, 2021, 04:37:04 PM »

Any of those would do the trick. Increasing baseRating to 1.0 would be the simplest method, but it means your combat ships will rarely get negative traits, if ever. Or you could wait for the patch, which I'm hoping to release tomorrow.

Euripides

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #711 on: April 20, 2021, 08:44:58 AM »

Yes, that's normal. By default there's a flat 50% chance for new traits to be negative for civilian ships. The option to change it is "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"
Arbitrary, doesn't make sense from gameplay perspective, not very engaging or fun; just automatic debuff on civilian ships and you can't even influence it through gameplay. I'm glad this can be turned off.
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Mysticunicycle

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #712 on: April 23, 2021, 10:19:52 PM »

Hello, cool mod you have here.

After a few hours of playing, all of my logistics ships are riddled with extra fuel consumption, extra supply consumption, etc. and I have zero control over it. I assume this is working as intended, but just want to offer feedback that I think this could be improved to be more engaging. As it sits, I've been punished for no reason at all.

I don't know how the code works, only that it only considers hull damage, but this heavily favors ships that are strong finishers, and not ships that are high shield dps. My favorite ship is one that can 1v1 most ships in the game, but doesn't do so in a blaze of glory. In a big battle you'll find it shredding down shields and changing targets, and letting something else finish the first guy off. Is there a way to reward my ship, or am I just going to be stuck at a permanent -30% crew loyalty, even though my ship has never been disabled, or even hurt below like 80% hull? Personally, I don't think your crew loyalty should be able to decrease if your crew was never in danger. Why would they get upset that they didn't die, the ship remained unharmed, and you won the battle? I think there should be an equilibrium point at around 60% combat rating, and as long as your ship isn't getting its hull breached every battle, it should tend towards that point. If you do high damage / killing blows / whatever, then you tend above the equilibrium line. My flagship can't climb above 48%, even if I put it solo vs 4 or 5 small pirate scum constantly.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #713 on: April 25, 2021, 07:47:04 AM »

Starship Legends 1.5.2
Compatible with previous versions

Fixed famous derelicts and flagships sometimes not being recoverable after being destroyed in battle
Fixed reputation hullmods temporarily being removed from ships with no ordnance points assigned on game load
Fixed a few immersion issues:
  -The names of factions that do not appear in the intel tab are replaced with "undesignated opposing force"
  -Prevented a certain special fleet with a certain special ship from having traits
  -Prevented a certain special faction from having traits (may change once more is known)
Changed: Civilian ships no longer get traits ("traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips" changed from 2 to 0)
Changed: Reduced the effect of enemy fleet traits ("fleetTraitEffectMult" reduced from 3 to 2)
Changed: Doubled effect of traits that affect CR recovery rate (Industrious/Lazy Crew)
Changed several settings related to levels to compensate for lower level caps in 0.95
  -Increased "traitChanceBonusPerPlayerLevel" from 0.05 to 0.15
  -Increased "traitChanceMultPerPlayerCaptainLevel" from 0.005 to 0.02
  -Increased "traitChanceMultPerNonPlayerCaptainLevel" from 0.01 to 0.04
Changed: Flattened the number of traits enemy fleets could get
  -Commanders will now grant 2 traits to their fleet at level one, plus one trait for every two additional levels
  -(Previously it was one trait per level)


Note 1: This is not the promised overhaul. It's just a patch to improve what I can without making any major/risky changes.

Note 2: After a great deal of testing, I've determined that the occasional discrepancies between damage sustained reported by starship legends and damage actually sustained is likely only caused by certain types of damage, like friendly fire and collision damage. I don't think those types of damage should count for the purpose of ratings anyway, so I no longer consider this a known issue.

Sundog

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #714 on: April 25, 2021, 08:16:55 AM »

Hello, cool mod you have here.
Glad you think so!  ;D

Personally, I don't think your crew loyalty should be able to decrease if your crew was never in danger. Why would they get upset that they didn't die, the ship remained unharmed, and you won the battle? I think there should be an equilibrium point at around 60% combat rating, and as long as your ship isn't getting its hull breached every battle, it should tend towards that point. If you do high damage / killing blows / whatever, then you tend above the equilibrium line.
It basically already works this way. With default settings ships can't lose rating unless they take hull damage, and if they only get scratched their rating reductions will be proportionally insignificant.

My flagship can't climb above 48%, even if I put it solo vs 4 or 5 small pirate scum constantly.
Yeah, the combat rating system is BS because it punishes inexperienced players and makes the game even easier for vets. The idea is for people to adjust the settings to suit their desired difficulty, but people shouldn't have to much about in settings files. I want this mod to work well "out of the box" for everyone, but I've got a lot of work to do before that's feasible. At this point I'm pretty sure I'm just going to retire this version, call it legacy, and rebuild the mod in a way that doesn't require a combat rating system.

Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #715 on: April 25, 2021, 08:19:19 AM »

Hello Sundog! Just dropping by to say I just grabbed the new update (works like a charm) and that I've been enthustiastically slapping this mod of yours into my modded campaigns every time I finished the obligatory vanilla campaigns after every patch! Also...

Suggestion time!
Have you thought about the concept of giving AI fleets (could only be done for Bounties and/or significantly sizeable fleets) their very own Commander, with a number of skills ranging from 5 to 15 to match the player?

You could even apply some incredible customization to various "faction commanders" for every faction to be even more distinct from the others. Could the game handle this or would slapping commanders on ships break the game in some way? I could think of Special Modifications screwing with the Autofit...

Then again, imagine how amazing this would be. Given the fact every "commander" would at least have 5 combat skills to match the other officers, a Hegemony commander could have 10 skills in leadership, tritach with 5 technology and 5 leadership (or maybe even 10 in technology, hello TT using automated ships!) Luddic Path commander with 5 industry and 5 leadership (oh sweet Ludd, derelict contingent in a pather fleet that has 5 dmods on every ship, that could give me a heart attack) and I could go on indefinetly!

Hm, it does feel very complicated to implement now that I really ponder this. Would it be possible to just copy the commander skills and then just paste them as "fleetwide" buffs into enemy fleets as a workaround?

« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 08:35:37 AM by Arcagnello »
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #716 on: April 25, 2021, 08:35:31 AM »

Hello Sundog! Just dropping by to say I just grabbed the new update (works like a charm) and that I've been enthustiastically slapping this mod of yours into my modded campaigns every time I finished the obligatory vanilla campaigns after every patch!
;D

Have you thought about the concept of giving AI fleets (could only be done for Bounties and/or significantly sizeable fleets their very own Commander, with a number of skills ranging from 5 to 15 to match the player?
Doesn't vanilla already do this? I'm honestly not entirely sure specifically how commanders work under the hood. Either way, it seems like something like this is a bit outside the purview of this mod, although I do like the idea of further differentiating factions.

Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #717 on: April 25, 2021, 08:39:07 AM »

Hello Sundog! Just dropping by to say I just grabbed the new update (works like a charm) and that I've been enthustiastically slapping this mod of yours into my modded campaigns every time I finished the obligatory vanilla campaigns after every patch!
;D

Have you thought about the concept of giving AI fleets (could only be done for Bounties and/or significantly sizeable fleets their very own Commander, with a number of skills ranging from 5 to 15 to match the player?
Doesn't vanilla already do this? I'm honestly not entirely sure specifically how commanders work under the hood. Either way, it seems like something like this is a bit outside the purview of this mod, although I do like the idea of further differentiating factions.

I'm quite sure vanilla fleet "commanders" are just a humble officer when it comes to actual combat, sometimes with 7 skills instead of the maximum 6. I never noticed the telltale signs AI of Fleets having  Leadership/Technology/Industry skills of their owm.

If you fought a Luddic Path horde whose "commander" had Derelict Contingent (and possibly also Crew Training) trust me, you would have noticed real quick.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 08:44:32 AM by Arcagnello »
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Mysticunicycle

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #718 on: April 25, 2021, 10:31:44 PM »

I would be careful of doing this. AI fleets can already field tons of officers (much more than the player), and it seems like the AI officer level is usually 7, where as the player can only create level 5 officers by default. I've seen over 20 officers in an AI fleet before. Adding a lot of fleet skills on top of officers who are already better and more numerous than the player would quickly make every battle feel like david v goliath.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #719 on: April 26, 2021, 01:28:41 AM »

I would be careful of doing this. AI fleets can already field tons of officers (much more than the player), and it seems like the AI officer level is usually 7, where as the player can only create level 5 officers by default. I've seen over 20 officers in an AI fleet before. Adding a lot of fleet skills on top of officers who are already better and more numerous than the player would quickly make every battle feel like david v goliath.

I imagine officer spam is going to be addressed soon enough, they already made some "duct tape" fixes like reducing the max ECM penalty, showing they indeed do know the issue exists.
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