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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs  (Read 768672 times)

Rhinoscerous

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #645 on: February 01, 2021, 01:49:56 PM »

So this is the second time that my flagship has lost a positive trait after winning a battle and wiping (or routing) the enemy fleet without taking any damage. I know that, by deployment numbers, this was an "easy" battle, but I still think it's ridiculous to lose a positive trait after blapping some scrubs. Honestly this makes me not want to fly my flagship in smaller engagements, which just isn't any fun. Is there any way to change this in the config files?

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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #646 on: February 02, 2021, 05:58:51 PM »

Negative trait changes aren't supposed to occur unless the ship loses at least 1% of its rating. Apparently that's not the case. I suspect it's some sort of general bug, but just to narrow things down: Are you using the latest version (1.4.3)? Have you changed the configuration at all? If so, how? Thanks for any details, and sorry for the trouble!

Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #647 on: February 03, 2021, 08:18:24 AM »

I can verify that this happens with version 1.4.3 - though I have also changed my configuration (set bonusChanceForCivilianShips to 1.0 and modified traits.csv to set loyalty chance to zero.)

I'd believed that this was an intended mechanic that could be disabled by setting bonusChanceRandomness to zero instead of its default 0.05?
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Rhinoscerous

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #648 on: February 03, 2021, 10:55:03 AM »

I am using 1.4.3 and haven't changed the config in any way. This has been happening fairly frequently for me.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #649 on: February 03, 2021, 06:21:43 PM »

Ok so it turns out everything is working as intended, I just misremembered the original intention a bit. The rule is that rating changes above 1% will prevent negative traits (and vice versa), NOT that rating changes above -1% will prevent them, as I stated earlier. It's a small but significant difference. Sorry for lying to you guys!

So, contrary to what I said earlier, rating changes between -1% and +1% will allow both positive and negative changes, depending on the difference between the combat rating and the ratio of good to bad traits. I believe I decided it should work that way in order to allow for more flexibility in adjusting trait sets to match ratings. The scenario Rhinoscerous pointed out is a great argument against that flexibility, however, so with the next update I'll probably make it work as I said yesterday (good trait changes require at least +1% rating and bad ones require -1% or worse). Or I might simplify the rule and do away with the 1% thresholds. Negative rating changes required for negative traits and pos for pos. I'll have to consider it. Open to feedback!

Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #650 on: February 03, 2021, 06:55:19 PM »

Hm, tricky. I'm not sure there's necessarily a truly simple solution here that'll cover all cases...

I'd be inclined to have sliding thresholds based on total reputation (a legendary reputation is harder to change than a notable reputation), and how far out of line the existing traits are with the combat rating (something that's somehow gotten a 100% combat rating with all negative traits can get a positive adjustment even while losing rating... or vice versa).

...But on the other hand, that sounds like it'd be difficult to calibrate well, and might also have issues with communicating to the player what those thresholds are or why traits are changing the way they are. I'd probably still try for it, but I also tend to over-complicate things sometimes.

Edit: Also, do ships actually end up with traits that are wildly out of line with their combat rating? I guess that might happen with combat freighters or something?



That said, the thing that I'd most want to avoid is the situation I've seen a few times of "Battle 1, ship gains trait, Battle 2, rating doesn't change much, ship immediately loses the trait it just gained."
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 07:00:41 PM by Wyvern »
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Rhinoscerous

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #651 on: February 04, 2021, 09:18:20 AM »

...But on the other hand, that sounds like it'd be difficult to calibrate well, and might also have issues with communicating to the player what those thresholds are or why traits are changing the way they are. I'd probably still try for it, but I also tend to over-complicate things sometimes.
Honestly I think something as simple as "no negative trait gain on positive rating change" is good enough. It might already work this way, but the only but you could scale the chance of positive changes based on performance, but there should be no reason to gain negative traits if the ship performs well.

That said, the thing that I'd most want to avoid is the situation I've seen a few times of "Battle 1, ship gains trait, Battle 2, rating doesn't change much, ship immediately loses the trait it just gained."
This also happens to me all the time. "Yay finally got a really good trait" *5 minutes later* "ope, there it goes."

Here's another recent battle where I wiped the enemy fleet, taking 0 damage in return, yet 2/3 ships gained negative traits https://i.imgur.com/vpb0W11.png
I wouldn't be bothered so much if this was like 1/100 battles, but it's practically every time I get into a fight.
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #652 on: February 04, 2021, 09:25:00 AM »

I might also consider different thresholds for different types of trait changes.

Specifically, I'd prefer it to be harder to lose a trait (whether positive or negative) than it is to re-order traits or gain traits.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #653 on: February 05, 2021, 07:08:46 PM »

Hm, tricky. I'm not sure there's necessarily a truly simple solution here that'll cover all cases...

I'd be inclined to have sliding thresholds based on total reputation (a legendary reputation is harder to change than a notable reputation), and how far out of line the existing traits are with the combat rating (something that's somehow gotten a 100% combat rating with all negative traits can get a positive adjustment even while losing rating... or vice versa).

...But on the other hand, that sounds like it'd be difficult to calibrate well, and might also have issues with communicating to the player what those thresholds are or why traits are changing the way they are. I'd probably still try for it, but I also tend to over-complicate things sometimes.
Lots of good points. Sliding threshholds for reputation volatility would be great. But, yeah, I'd prefer to avoid adding any more complexity than absolutely necessary. Starship legends (particularly the rating system) is already far more complex than I'd like it to be. Mods having a lot of opaque complexity is actually a big pet-peeve of mine, so, franky, I'm ashamed. Honestly, if I could restart this mod from scratch I wouldn't consider making traits depend on combat performance in any way. It's a fun mechanic, but it's also been a huge source of confusion, bugs, maintenance, compromise, and general dissatisfaction.

Edit: Also, do ships actually end up with traits that are wildly out of line with their combat rating? I guess that might happen with combat freighters or something?
Not in my experience, but who knows.

That said, the thing that I'd most want to avoid is the situation I've seen a few times of "Battle 1, ship gains trait, Battle 2, rating doesn't change much, ship immediately loses the trait it just gained."
Yeah, for sure. Preventing small rep changes of less than 1% from causing trait changes should help quite a bit with that, but it'll still be possible. I might wait to see how much that change improves the situation before considering further changes.

It might already work this way, but the only but you could scale the chance of positive changes based on performance, but there should be no reason to gain negative traits if the ship performs well.
Agreed. The default config is pretty aggressive about trying to make a ship's ratio of good and bad traits match up with its rating instead of granting traits based on the ship's performance in the most recent battle. It sounds like that might be your preference though. You might want to take a look at the "better immersion" configuration edits in the "recommended option presets" section of the OP.

I might also consider different thresholds for different types of trait changes.

Specifically, I'd prefer it to be harder to lose a trait (whether positive or negative) than it is to re-order traits or gain traits.
Yeah, that would be good. I'll have to consider the best way to actually achieve that.

Otharious

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #654 on: March 26, 2021, 11:18:14 PM »

curious if this needs any tweaking for the game update?
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IonDragonX

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #655 on: March 27, 2021, 10:03:33 AM »

curious if this needs any tweaking for the game update?
Probably. You could always experiment by editing the mod_info.json file so it "claims" that it is compatible with 0.95-RC9
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #656 on: March 27, 2021, 06:06:50 PM »

curious if this needs any tweaking for the game update?
Probably. You could always experiment by editing the mod_info.json file so it "claims" that it is compatible with 0.95-RC9
I wouldn't recommend it! While starship legends might mostly work with 0.95a, it will cause errors under some conditions. I've checked and found code incompatibilities.

It shouldn't be too long before I can release an update.

Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #657 on: March 29, 2021, 08:16:13 PM »

Starship Legends 1.5.0

Updated compatibility to Starsector version 0.95a
Fixed various rare or minor issues thanks to engine improvements from 0.95a
Fixed max integrity not being counted correctly for some ships with modules, resulting in their damage taken frequently being erroneously reported as 100%
Changed: Distinct visuals and updated icons for reputation hullmods
Changed: Reduced how frequently remnant fleets have the "deadly" trait by half
Changed: Rating changes between +1% and -1% can no longer result in traits being lost or new negative traits being gained
Changed default settings to be more difficult (due to ruthless sector not being available):
-  More difficult to maintain good traits (baseRating reduced from 0.65 to 0.5)
-  Ratings are reduced more by damage taken (damageTakenMult increased from 0.65 to 0.85)
-  Chance for officers to improve loyalty reduced by 50%
-  Famous derelicts may be guarded by Remnant fleets
Integration: Mods that add hull-regenerating ships can now add entries to the merged file at data/config/starship_legends/hull_regen_ships.csv


Known Issues:
In rare cases, rating adjustments will not take damage sustained by your ships into account correctly (0% sustained damage on the battle report)
Famous NPC flagships and derelicts from bar event missions are frequently not recoverable after being destroyed in battle

Starship Legends will undergo an overhaul to address these issues and make other improvements, but that won't be ready for quite a while

Zangetsuke

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #658 on: March 30, 2021, 12:14:20 PM »

That don't work

Quote of error: "Minimum Version: 0.95.0a-RC11"
                       "Current Version: 0.95.0a-RC10"


My bad, didn't see the new link of download by Alex.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 12:18:18 PM by Zangetsuke »
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ck68

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Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
« Reply #659 on: March 30, 2021, 06:56:23 PM »

That don't work

Quote of error: "Minimum Version: 0.95.0a-RC11"
                       "Current Version: 0.95.0a-RC10"


My bad, didn't see the new link of download by Alex.

Where is the new link?

Yeah I don't see any new link the only one I see has the RC11 issue
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 07:04:54 PM by ck68 »
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