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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs  (Read 768558 times)

TrashMan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #135 on: May 24, 2019, 12:08:32 AM »

Run SetRelationship faction (currentRelationship+bonus) after battles/events when applicable?
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #136 on: May 24, 2019, 06:22:14 AM »

Yeah, changing relationships is easy. The difficulty would be overriding vanilla behavior in most places where relationships are changed.

DrakonST

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #137 on: May 24, 2019, 06:30:12 AM »

Need to do danger multiplier for player fleet based on how much legendary ships have player. I mean not NPC danger level, i mean danger level of player fleet what see NPC when atacking player.

It can cut stupid situations on endgame when i as player have 5 legendary Conquests what can exterminate any fleet on sector but i has been atacked by some stupid pirates(in such situations and just do "nuke" command, hate boring battles when you know what you do with enemy). No one will want atack a most angry fleet on sector.
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I a Russian. And i communicate with the help of Promt Translate. And I am a color-blind person.

TrashMan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #138 on: May 24, 2019, 01:52:20 PM »

Yeah, changing relationships is easy. The difficulty would be overriding vanilla behavior in most places where relationships are changed.

But do you have to?
Copy all of the relation values to your own variables and do compares after actions, then add a bonus and save the new value (to both).
If you want to double the value of each interaction:

my_hemegomony_rel = hegemony_rel
hemegomony_rel = hegemony_rel + (hegemony_rel - my_hegemony_rel)*2
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Obsidian Actual

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #139 on: May 25, 2019, 12:31:43 AM »

(Not sure if this has been bought up before.)

Using the amount of hull integrity lost during combat as a performance metric is a neat idea.
But what about, say, ships purposely designed to eschew shields in exchange for regenerating hull/armor as a form of defense?

Granted, such ships are rare enough (at least in the current Modiverse), but having Starship Legends running does make me think twice about splurging on a BRDY Imaginos (or even an SWP Excelsior) when faced with the prospect of unavoidable negative traits. :'(

Any chance in the far future of some sort of mechanic to "exclude" certain ships from gaining trait hullmods (both positive & negative) without having to uninstall Starship Legends? A whitelist, perhaps?

(Other than that... thanks for this awesome mod, Sundog. Earning buffs via trait hullmods is helping me kick my ConsoleCommands cheating habit :P)
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SCC

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #140 on: May 25, 2019, 03:05:59 AM »

I got curious and went to check. I've messed with console commands and devmode, mainly to be able to fight any fleets/stations I want immediately, and somehow got records of damage received and dealt completely zeroed. It also appears that if you fight a station with just an Excelsior, then retreat, it doesn't count the damage dealt at all.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #141 on: May 25, 2019, 11:03:19 PM »

Need to do danger multiplier for player fleet based on how much legendary ships have player. I mean not NPC danger level, i mean danger level of player fleet what see NPC when atacking player.

It can cut stupid situations on endgame when i as player have 5 legendary Conquests what can exterminate any fleet on sector but i has been atacked by some stupid pirates(in such situations and just do "nuke" command, hate boring battles when you know what you do with enemy). No one will want atack a most angry fleet on sector.
That might work. I would have to give it some thought. Alterations to fleet AI isn't quite within the purview of this mod, and some people get annoyed with having to run down fleets that run away. I don't know how feasible a change like that would be from a technical perspective either.

Copy all of the relation values to your own variables and do compares after actions, then add a bonus and save the new value (to both).
Yes, monitoring relations and adjusting them based on existing changes would work, but it wouldn't result in a good user experience because the actual changes would be different from what the notifications say. To do it properly, I would have to either fix the vanilla relation change notifications, or suppress and replace them.

But what about, say, ships purposely designed to eschew shields in exchange for regenerating hull/armor as a form of defense?
My opinion on this is basically "defense is defense," be it from shields, PD, cloak, armor, speed, firepower, ship systems, or anything else that helps the ship avoid taking hull damage. Regenerating hull, on the other hand, is something that isn't handled well by this system at all. I'll have to think about ways to handle that. I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken."

Any chance in the far future of some sort of mechanic to "exclude" certain ships from gaining trait hullmods (both positive & negative) without having to uninstall Starship Legends? A whitelist, perhaps?
A blacklist is more likely, but I want to try to figure something out that's not quite so heavy-handed.

(Other than that... thanks for this awesome mod, Sundog. Earning buffs via trait hullmods is helping me kick my ConsoleCommands cheating habit :P)
You're quite welcome  :)
I should warn you; I'm planning to add console commands to manipulate reputations at some point.

I got curious and went to check. I've messed with console commands and devmode, mainly to be able to fight any fleets/stations I want immediately, and somehow got records of damage received and dealt completely zeroed. It also appears that if you fight a station with just an Excelsior, then retreat, it doesn't count the damage dealt at all.
Thanks for the info! Were these battles all against a lone station? The current version doesn't handle damage dealt to stations (and multi-part ships) well at all, due to how the game records hull damage (basically, the final blow awards 100% damage). Fixing the handling of station damage is one of my main focuses for the next release, and I'm pretty sure this aspect of it is already fixed in the dev build.

SCC

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #142 on: May 26, 2019, 12:25:50 AM »

Thanks for the info! Were these battles all against a lone station? The current version doesn't handle damage dealt to stations (and multi-part ships) well at all, due to how the game records hull damage (basically, the final blow awards 100% damage). Fixing the handling of station damage is one of my main focuses for the next release, and I'm pretty sure this aspect of it is already fixed in the dev build.
I think that in a couple of battles there were ships supporting the station and I think it didn't count damage dealt to them at all. I can go and check it again, but I think the issue with station damage prevented the whole thing from working properly anyway. Also, what about the "records go 0% everywhere" thing? Is it supposed to work like that?

Obsidian Actual

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #143 on: May 26, 2019, 02:15:04 AM »

... I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken." ...

Hmm, that alone might work.

Then again, a composite of "lowest hull level reached" AND "total hull damage taken" would probably make more sense (balance-wise?).

Don't know how to summarize my reasons exactly... but say for example a self-repairing frigate survives a single protracted engagement where their lowest hull level reached was around 40% of their maximum hull; however, if this was the result of them repeatedly tanking shots (and then falling back to regenerate) to the point where they've cumulatively "sustained" enough damage that would normally destroy them -- I don't know, eight times over (800% hull)? -- I doubt the crew (or AI) onboard would see this as symptomatic of a "skilled" captain. One that relies almost solely on the self-regenerating ability to survive, instead of decent helmsman-ship and/or application of firepower.

Just my two cents. Off the top of my head, I don't have any good ratios or multipliers for if a composite formula is implemented.


I should warn you; I'm planning to add console commands to manipulate reputations at some point.

TWO DAYS
I WAS MERELY TWO DAYS AWAY FROM COMPLETING REHAB ;D
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SCC

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #144 on: May 26, 2019, 01:41:15 PM »

I would really like to know when a ship's performance is zeroed, to avoid things like these in the future... It was a tough fight and I had to re-engage two times.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #145 on: May 26, 2019, 02:01:34 PM »

I would really like to know when a ship's performance is zeroed, to avoid things like these in the future... It was a tough fight and I had to re-engage two times.
Sorry about that! Damage won't be recorded for engagements you retreat from. I just fixed it in the dev build today. I'm working on getting a patch out with a few other fixes.

Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #146 on: May 27, 2019, 12:02:00 AM »

Starship Legends 1.1.7 (BETA)

A ship's balance of good/bad traits is now determined by it's combat rating, with only a small amount of RNG
     See "What does combat rating do?" in the FAQs for details.
     To switch back to the old system, set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Fixed hull damage not being recorded after a full retreat (by the player)
Fixed an issue that would occasionally cause battle difficulty to be 0%
Fixed credit for damage dealt to sub-sections of stations and multi-section ships not being distributed properly
Fixed multi-section ships not getting credit for damage dealt by their sub-sections
Sustained hull damage is now capped at 100%, which should help ships with regenerating hull until I can make a more perminant fix
Doubled the xp required to earn new traits at every tier

I should have explained all this earlier. Sorry for not doing so!

An overdue explanation of how the new combat rating system interacts with old saves:

How the new system works:
  • Combat rating determines how many of a ship's traits are good.
  • Traits will gradually shift to have a percentage of good traits equal to the current rating of the ship.
  • If a ship has a rating of 70% for a long time, it will eventually end up with about 70% good traits and 30% bad traits.
So, unlike the previous version, where traits are determined by individual battles, in 1.1.7 it's more about maintaining as high a rating as possible.

Initial Rating
When an old save is loaded with the current version, it will try to guess what each of your ship's combat rating should be.
It will assign a rating of 100% to ships with 8 good traits and 0% to ships with 8 bad traits. Ship's with 1 or 2 traits should get an initial rating fairly close to 50%.

Rationale for change:
The old system was simply too easy to manipulate. Any ship that did fairly well in most battles would eventually end up with 8 good traits. I used RNG to mitigate this problem, but that had issues of its own, and the law of averages always wins out in the end anyway. With the rating system, I think ships will end up with a much more balanced mix of good and bad traits that more accurately reflects their overall combat performance.

Switching back to the old system:
Making the following changes to your options file should return the trait bonus calculation to exactly how it used to be:
Set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Set "bonusChanceRandomness" to 1.0
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:54:12 PM by Sundog »
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TrashMan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #147 on: May 27, 2019, 01:00:43 AM »

Yes, monitoring relations and adjusting them based on existing changes would work, but it wouldn't result in a good user experience because the actual changes would be different from what the notifications say. To do it properly, I would have to either fix the vanilla relation change notifications, or suppress and replace them.

Or you could just add yours right after.

"Relation with Hegemony increased by 2"   <--- core mesage
"Relation with Hegemony increased by 1"   <--- your mesage (the bonus)

Not exactly the prettiest, but works.

Quote
My opinion on this is basically "defense is defense," be it from shields, PD, cloak, armor, speed, firepower, ship systems, or anything else that helps the ship avoid taking hull damage. Regenerating hull, on the other hand, is something that isn't handled well by this system at all. I'll have to think about ways to handle that. I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken."

Yeah, Steelclad has an entire faction that is all armor, no shields (and no armor regen by default).
Hmm..perhaps a check if a ship has shields an then a different calculation for it?

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Serenitis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #148 on: May 27, 2019, 06:52:32 AM »

Very much a fan of this mod.

Not really a fan of this though:
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This was a popup pirate base. The only objective I had was kill it as quickly as possible so I can go and do something actually interesting.
So I deployed everything I could and completely rolled them with zero damage recieved.
And for doing so I was rewarded with.... A load of penalties.
What. How?

I don't have a problem getting bad things if bad things happen, but winning flawlessly (regardless of "difficulty") and still imposing bad things on you seems like something is very wrong.
Is this intentional?
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SCC

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #149 on: May 27, 2019, 06:58:56 AM »

Is this an old save? Sundog has warned me about using newer version of the mod with old saves. It can cause some funky things to happen. It might also just be the way the current system interacts with low danger battles. One change I'd propose is to have a grace period of a couple of fights where ships affect their rating, but don't gain any traits at all.
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