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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Fuel Siphoning v1.4.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae  (Read 177529 times)

Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Fuel Siphoning v1.1.4 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2020, 04:40:17 AM »

I endorse the idea and the execution is great at least ergonomically.
However I decided to abandon it because it no longer supports red giants and it is way too easy to get fuel. Something more immersive like hull mods or dedicated fuel processing ships would let me justify using this (maybe faster conversion speed based on how much of them is in use) but right now this feels like cheating and suffers from the same problem supply forging does (no scaling with fleet size).
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Fuel Siphoning v1.1.4 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2020, 05:56:38 PM »

Huh. Could you maybe describe how you're using the ability to make the game much easier? From the start I've been very careful to make sure fuel siphoning is only useful in two specific cases:
  • When you have an emergency fuel shortage but have supplies to spare
  • When you're passing near certain points on the sector map (nebula systems) that can be used as fuel stops in order to avoid bringing along so many tankers, and thereby make the trip slightly more efficient
I think perhaps you're not aware that it's much cheaper to just buy fuel than to convert supplies to fuel using fuel siphoning (except at nebula systems, where it's about the same)

right now this feels like cheating and suffers from the same problem supply forging does (no scaling with fleet size).
Fuel conversion rate scales with your fleet's total fuel capacity, which is closely tied to fleet size.

Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Fuel Siphoning v1.1.4 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2020, 02:30:35 AM »

Huh. Could you maybe describe how you're using the ability to make the game much easier? From the start I've been very careful to make sure fuel siphoning is only useful in two specific cases:
  • When you have an emergency fuel shortage but have supplies to spare
  • When you're passing near certain points on the sector map (nebula systems) that can be used as fuel stops in order to avoid bringing along so many tankers, and thereby make the trip slightly more efficient
I think perhaps you're not aware that it's much cheaper to just buy fuel than to convert supplies to fuel using fuel siphoning (except at nebula systems, where it's about the same)
Hard to tell what would be important. During a journey I stop by a nebula blessed system and speed through a cloud with the ability turned on. Even non-dense nebulas fill up the tank goddamn fast, like in a fraction of a second or 1-2 seconds worst case.


right now this feels like cheating and suffers from the same problem supply forging does (no scaling with fleet size).
Fuel conversion rate scales with your fleet's total fuel capacity, which is closely tied to fleet size.
This could be it. I'm a packrat and installed the mod at about 5000 fuel capacity with a small fleet (right now its 11k but doesn't really matter since fuel is plenty, supply got scare with large scale battles due to nexerelin).
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Fuel Siphoning v1.1.4 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2020, 07:31:21 PM »

Siphon rate also scales with the current speed of your fleet, so slowing down while going through nebulae is a good way to more precisely control how many supplies you convert into fuel.

Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Fuel Siphoning v1.1.4 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2020, 03:17:11 AM »

Siphon rate also scales with the current speed of your fleet, so slowing down while going through nebulae is a good way to more precisely control how many supplies you convert into fuel.

I was aware of that and assumed the siphon rate would be balanced for the highest achievable burn rate of 20.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Fuel Siphoning v1.1.2 - Now more useful!
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2021, 08:03:36 PM »

Fuel Siphoning 1.2.0

Updated compatibility to Starsector version 0.95a
Added "fuelPriceMult" setting, thanks to new API improvements (it defaults to 1 - meaning no change from vanilla)

Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a] Fuel Siphoning v1.2.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2021, 10:49:42 AM »

I'm building a modpack and this was a no-brainer! Thank you again for the amazing content you feed me graciously provide to the playerbase!
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: [0.9.1a] Fuel Siphoning v1.1.4 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2021, 11:13:37 PM »

I endorse the idea and the execution is great at least ergonomically.
However I decided to abandon it because it no longer supports red giants and it is way too easy to get fuel. Something more immersive like hull mods or dedicated fuel processing ships would let me justify using this (maybe faster conversion speed based on how much of them is in use) but right now this feels like cheating and suffers from the same problem supply forging does (no scaling with fleet size).

Agreed.  Alternatively, might be better to at least require a planet with volatiles instead of flying through a nebula (although admittedly this would basically ignore much of the work put into this mod).  Hull mod and volatiles required prolly best solution, but doubt anyone wants to do the work...
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_Dividebyzero_

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Re: [0.95a] Fuel Siphoning v1.2.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2021, 04:50:28 PM »

I do personally like the idea of tying it to a hullmod. That avoids ergonomic issues (like having to carry items around with you) while also requiring some level of logistical sacrifice. The main issue with this mod is that it makes fuel supply essentially infinite--in the late game when you have several gas guzzlers, it becomes difficult to find enough fuel without specifically going to nachiketa or other fuel-producing colonies.

That being said, the options allow one to reasonably nerf the production without resorting to hullmods. The only other thing I would suggest is adding an option for a speed multiplier in the options.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 05:11:51 PM by _Dividebyzero_ »
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lazloner

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Re: [0.95a] Fuel Siphoning v1.2.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2021, 03:37:22 AM »

I couldn't find it asked in the thread (unless I'm extra blind today), but have you thought about making another mod for something along the lines of ore -> metal and other such? Thanks for the mod by the way.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95a] Fuel Siphoning v1.2.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2021, 03:54:02 PM »

The only other thing I would suggest is adding an option for a speed multiplier in the options.
Would you mind explaining why? Is it hard to control the conversion rate by changing the speed of the fleet sometimes?

I couldn't find it asked in the thread (unless I'm extra blind today), but have you thought about making another mod for something along the lines of ore -> metal and other such? Thanks for the mod by the way.
You're welcome!  ;D
I actually have considered making a mod that would enable things like that, although perhaps not in the way you're thinking. I have a lot of more important things to work on, so I probably won't ever get around to making it, but here are my notes on the idea:
Spoiler
Exploitable Planets   
   Surveyed planets allow certain interactions based on their characteristics (e.g. extracting commodities)
   Cost of interactions scales with hazard rating
   Some exploitable resources regenerate over time (with a delay before regeneration?)
   Others may require supplies to exploit, or may only be explited once
   May be exploited by other fleets preventing you from doing so?
   Syrvivors may be found on decivilized worlds and accepted as crew
   Facilities may be found on planets with ruins that allow...
      Fabricating supplies (Metals + Organics + Food)
      Refining ore
      Synthesizing fuel from volitiles
      These facilities allow infinite conversion at an inefficient conversion rate
   Intel would need to be made available for each surveyed planet in a way that makes it easy to find the type of interaction you need nearby
   Decivilized worlds require marines to safely exploit
[close]

lazloner

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Re: [0.95a] Fuel Siphoning v1.2.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2021, 08:39:35 PM »

I couldn't find it asked in the thread (unless I'm extra blind today), but have you thought about making another mod for something along the lines of ore -> metal and other such? Thanks for the mod by the way.
You're welcome!  ;D
I actually have considered making a mod that would enable things like that, although perhaps not in the way you're thinking. I have a lot of more important things to work on, so I probably won't ever get around to making it, but here are my notes on the idea:
Spoiler
Exploitable Planets   
   Surveyed planets allow certain interactions based on their characteristics (e.g. extracting commodities)
   Cost of interactions scales with hazard rating
   Some exploitable resources regenerate over time (with a delay before regeneration?)
   Others may require supplies to exploit, or may only be explited once
   May be exploited by other fleets preventing you from doing so?
   Syrvivors may be found on decivilized worlds and accepted as crew
   Facilities may be found on planets with ruins that allow...
      Fabricating supplies (Metals + Organics + Food)
      Refining ore
      Synthesizing fuel from volitiles
      These facilities allow infinite conversion at an inefficient conversion rate
   Intel would need to be made available for each surveyed planet in a way that makes it easy to find the type of interaction you need nearby
   Decivilized worlds require marines to safely exploit
[close]

That sounds awesome. More use from ruins always sounds good to me.
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_Dividebyzero_

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Re: [0.95a] Fuel Siphoning v1.2.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2021, 01:16:40 AM »

The only other thing I would suggest is adding an option for a speed multiplier in the options.
Would you mind explaining why? Is it hard to control the conversion rate by changing the speed of the fleet sometimes?

Mainly because more time spent harvesting = more supplies lost, but I realize that slowing it down might also make using the mod tedious. I suppose my main reservation against using this mod is that it feels like it adds a new choice with little downside (carry lots of supplies in order to transform into fuel along the way), and I would want it to in principle come with some downside to doing that. That said, the existing options allow the player to change the efficiency which is good enough of a tradeoff I think.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.95a] Fuel Siphoning v1.2.0 - Convert supplies to fuel at nebulae
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2021, 07:42:38 AM »

Yeah, the main trade off is in efficiency. 100 credits worth of supplies only yields 75 credits worth of fuel, unless you're in a nebula-type system, which are fairly rare. Reducing the rate of conversion would be a much less significant downside, unless it was reduced drastically (to the point of being tedious).
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