Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]

Author Topic: 20 Drovers vs Pirate Starbase and 26 Doom Fleets, 616 ships destroyed, no losses  (Read 20590 times)

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2794
    • View Profile

Plasma cannon is excellent at clearing fighter swarms due to passthrough. And if there aren't enough fighters to qualify as swarm,  they weren't a problem anyway. Ofc AI doesn't use plasma like this...
Logged

TrashMan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile

The problem with Carrier vs non-carrier is that carriers don't really pay any cost.

A non-carrier that equips PD to deal with fighters sacrifices firepower. He cannot get that firepower back.
Meanwhile, carriers hvae unlimited figters to spam, and many carriers are fast AND can brawl reasonably well.

My suggetions:
- like guns, all missiles can reload. But SLOWLY. Big powerfull missiles miight need a minute or two to reload. Either that or make it so EVERYTHING is finite. Fighters and guns included.

- if fighters are not limited, then carreirs need to be slower, so they can't escape easily. They should depend on escorts, so an all-carrier fleet cannot kite easily.
Logged

TrashMan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile

Other possible solutions - right now fighters are using standard weapons - same weapons as on ships.
A fighter that has 2 small weapons, 3 fighters per wing = 6 small weapons (for a low OP a low op cost of around 10)

What I came up with my mod is to create weaker, fighter variants of the same weapons.

Another possible idea is that all fighters/intereptors get a damage bonus on engines/weapons/subsystems damage AND/OR penalty on hull/armor damage.

That way fighters are support that can help disable/cripple, but lack true killing power, which is relegated to bombers and only bombers
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 06:41:47 AM by TrashMan »
Logged

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile

Carrier put the most amount of OP worth of weapons on the field for their DP cost, especially the Drover, fielding 14*7= 98 OP with Sparks, almost a battleship worth of Burst PD Lasers in 12 DP package, and with Talons it is 12*8=96 OP of Vulcans and Swarmers. If nerfing carrier is truely needed at some point, maybe add the fighter’s OP on to of the Carrier’s DP so bringing better fighters means fielding fewer ships.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 10:50:01 PM by goduranus »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile

My suggetions:
- like guns, all missiles can reload. But SLOWLY. Big powerfull missiles miight need a minute or two to reload. Either that or make it so EVERYTHING is finite. Fighters and guns included.
We had limited ballistics before late 0.6.5.  A problem was player can deploy a lone fast ship and either dodge or shield tank bullets until the enemy runs out of ammo, then pick them off.  Peak performance does much of the job limited ammo does.

Also, ammo does not restock between fights since 0.9, and fights have become bigger too.  With AI bound by 30 ship fleet cap like player, they get multiple capital fleets that make classic Hegemony System Defense Fleet of early versions look small.  Limited ammo would be brutal for ballistic reliant ships.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 05:18:08 AM by Megas »
Logged

TrashMan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile

But why are bullets and fighters infinite, and missiles are not?


And there IS a solution to the kitting. Have the AI sick close to map edge for a quick escape if ammo starts getting low. Also, increase ballistic ammo counts, since they would take up FAR less space than missiles or fighters.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile

But why are bullets and fighters infinite, and missiles are not?
Do not look at me for answers.  I think most, if not all, missiles, should regenerate too, and AM blaster become unlimited.

Retreat at low ammo is only partial solution, as player could force them to flee (unless fleet size is too big to disengage), and auto-resolve them away.
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7174
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile

Missiles are not unlimited because they are, slot for slot, FAR more powerful than ballistics or energy.

They could be reworked to have regenerating ammo, and several modders have made nice packages of changes that are quite playable, but the base game missiles are not appropriate for it.
Logged

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile

I suspect there may be a reason that alots of warships back off from carriers. The warship AI thinks itself to be at a flux disadvantage because the carriers are always at low flux?

If so, this would result in most warships refusing to move into weapons range unless piloted by an aggressive officer or is supported by many other ships moving against the same carrier, and could explain the overly conservative warship behavior in the face of carriers that we are seeing right now.

Goumindong

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1889
    • View Profile

One of the reasons I feel there is such a fighter dominance is that there is really only 2 weapons in vanilla that deal with fighter swarms: Devastators and Dual Flak. Note they are both ballistic. The energy PD is more of a anti-missile weapon family, and while Guardian PD can get reasonably good results it's very rare. IPDAI can help, but it will eat firepower and again, few AI ships have it. Missiles has no real anti-fighter capability (since swarmes are bad, and barel any ships can mount locusts).

Why not add more counters to fighters:

1. Give swarmers regen to ammo. It's utterly useless without it, because fighters regen. And for reasons unknown, talons have a special version of swarmers that does regen
2. Add a medium missile that will target fighters, maybe somthing like a longer range high alpha for rare, but powerful shots instagibbing high valuable fighters
3. An energy weapon tailored for anti-fighter role.

For balistic: LMG, LAG, HMG, AC, Flack, Dual Flack

HMG and D flack are probably best

For energy: tactical lasers(especially with advanced turret gyros), ion cannon, ir pulse laser, pulse laser, heavy blaster, phase lance

Tactical Lasers and phase lances are probably best. Anything with ATG and good projectile speed will tear through fighters in general. 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]