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Author Topic: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?  (Read 6811 times)

Igncom1

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Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« on: March 02, 2019, 12:55:44 AM »

What would be the most cost effective way of deploying as many medium missile mounts to a battle as possible?

Cost could be the cost to deploy or cost to get the right ships, but what is the best choice in vanilla for mass missile deployments?
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xenoargh

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2019, 01:28:39 AM »

For the number of Deployment Points and ships, both, the Gryphon, with 3 for only 14 DP.  There really isn't any alternative; the Vigilance is overpriced at 5 DP, so you cannot eat ships to deploy more Medium Missile mounts, even though it's kind of a terrible ship in most ways.
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Igncom1

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2019, 01:54:56 AM »

Interesting! I thought for sure the Vigilance was going to top that list! How much DP wise does the griffin compare with the Dominator?

The Griffin is a great ship to trade ITU with ECCM on I have found. Makes much morr use of that mod then buffing it's few ballistic mounts.
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xenoargh

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2019, 02:34:41 AM »

Dominator's 15 DP; slightly less missile-spamming for DP.

However, it's not going to give you the same performance as a missile-spammer, for a couple of reasons:

1.  Its System means it's going to get Flux-locked or killed early, in AI hands (or chain-kill everything; you just never know).
2.  It doesn't have (the admittedly, horribly-nerfed) Forge Vats.
3.  Speed and Flux stats are worse.
4.  If the concept is to stay near maximum ranges, the Dominator's slow speed cripples it; anything in the game can chase one down.

Dominators are basically designed to one thing well; charge up front, deliver an amazing amount of Alpha, then either win or get Flux-locked / flanked and die.  They're one-trick ponies. 

The Gryphon, by contrast, is much more fragile but it's also harder to get into engagement ranges with and it has wider, if weaker, coverage.  Several Gryphons acting together with long-range Kinetics can actually knock down shields / Flux-lock and kill with missile spam; they're not so great as singletons and will die swiftly if surrounded or charged by a Cruiser that can drain their Capacity while staying in range (Eagle, Falcon). 

Whether this is "better" kind of depends on the strategy you're going for.  The Gryphon is pretty OP-starved for a Cruiser in Vanilla; personally, I think it's currently over-starved.
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TaLaR

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2019, 04:26:19 AM »

Buffalo mk2 brings medium missile slot + fighter wing (in converted hangar) for 4 DP. Fleet of them is decently strong on per DP measurement - you need much less than 15 of them to defeat a 60 DP Paragon.
Still doesn't mean it's usable in campaign (due Slot/Officer limits + too fuel expensive).

Gryphon is slow and defenseless. Unless it stunlocks enemy with missiles quickly(coordinated assault via Sabots + Reaper/Hammers/etc), it dies. AI just doesn't use missiles in such manner, so AI Gryphons are pointless.
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Megas

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2019, 05:46:05 AM »

Whether this is "better" kind of depends on the strategy you're going for.  The Gryphon is pretty OP-starved for a Cruiser in Vanilla; personally, I think it's currently over-starved.
On top of that, Gryphon has destroyer-grade flux stats (and maybe others too).

The only time I may use Gryphon now is an early-game suicide bomber, with Hammer Barrage, if I recover one early and have not found enough ships to replace it with.
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Euphytose

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2019, 06:41:07 AM »

I like the Gryphon. Of course it requires the missile skills to be very effective, but using a torpedo launcher and a few sabot pods do the job. Get an aggressive Dominator to draw enemy fire and it's one hell of a ship.

Never give to the AI though, the potential is almost completely wasted. The only role they can fulfill is that of an escort with a loadout of anti fighters missiles.

Of course, the more mods you have, the more useful this ship becomes with the addition of lots of missiles.
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Serenitis

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2019, 07:19:17 AM »

Falcon (P)
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MajorTheRed

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 07:24:49 AM »

I guess it also depends on what type of missile you want to use.
I had some success combining carrier sporting medium missile mount. 3 or 4 Condor, with their complement of fighters, can quite easily fill the map with all kind of LRM, MRM and wings.
For a more close and personal approach, the Mora can also be nice.
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Cosmitz

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2019, 08:07:17 AM »

Falcon (P)

Roughly this. Not sure how it compares with the Griffon but the P's can make much better use of the mounts.
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Vayra

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2019, 08:49:13 AM »

I believe that would be the humble Buffalo MK.II, as showcased in the recent tournament.
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Shad

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2019, 09:14:30 AM »

I believe that would be the humble Buffalo MK.II, as showcased in the recent tournament.
True, in terms of how many missiles you can fit, it is very good. But you need missile regen like in the tournament to make best use of it (or use mod missiles with regen). Obviously you would never put an officer inside Buffalo but even basic one is good. For the price of one capital (40 FP) you get 10 mediums and 30 small missile slots. Using DA's micromissiles and Thrush you can generate a surprising stream of ordnance.
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Lucky33

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2019, 09:58:28 AM »

best choice in vanilla for mass missile deployments?

Legion. Five medium missile mounts and four fighter "mounts" which worth about three Hammer Barrages.

This is the true definition of Mass Missile Deployment and unbelievably satisfying to use.
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Thaago

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2019, 11:13:42 AM »

O_o People think Dominators and Gryphons are bad?!?!

Dominator is a strong ship that can outgun any other cruiser, at the cost of being weak to flanking. Triple Harpoon is probably the most reliable missile choice which will simply pop any destroyer that gets high on flux. Other medium missiles work great as well. This isn't even talking about SO Dominators, which are simply beasts. Incredibly good ships in AI hands or player.

Gryphon is also good in AI hands - as long as you have other ships around so it doesn't get singled out. It can reliably destroy many enemy ships, or it can hard shut down the entire enemy fighter force if using a Locust in the large. Try sabots in the front smalls, harpoon pods in the side mediums, either a locust or squall in the front large, an HVD in the medium ballistic, and some vulcans, extended missile racks + ECCM (no need for ITU). The more crowded the battle is, the better the Gryphon is, because it fires over allies.

[Side note:  Locust and Squall are the way to go; other large missiles options are a trap. Hammer Barrage is ok for a player, who can fly it aggressively with sabots in other slots and do good work, but not for the AI. It but it does not function with the Gryphon's best AI use case of pelting enemies from long range, supporting allies, and/or quickly finishing overloaded/high flux enemies.]

Falcon (P)'s are nice, and better suited to be torpedo attack boats than any other option. Also nice to put in frigate fleets cause they are so blisteringly fast. A Tempest + Falcon (P) fleet with base burn 11 would be fun (pity it still sustained burns at 20).

Condor + Salamander is a decent support combo, but Condors are so weak that its very painful when any enemy gunship catches them. They have worse than frigate direct combat power (but at least have enough armor to survive for ~15 seconds against light threats). So they are a bit of a liability early game, but are cheap support in the mid game.

BMII is great value but not well adapted to the enemies/fights found in campaign. It could be useful early game, but thats when the enemy is mass deploying fast frigates. So you need enough ships to keep the BMII safe... and once you have those ships, you no longer need the BMII. Add on that the BMII really wants to be timid, but wasting an officer on it is not a good idea except very early game and setting faction doctrine to timid breaks all other ships. The tourney lets us set per ship personalities - we can't do that in campaign :(.

Heavily degraded Enforcers on an Industry/Junker play deserve an honorable mention for maintaining most of the offense while getting very cheap. Even with 5 D mods they still carry a strong missile load, can mount flaks for fighter defense, and carry a Talon, all while having pretty good armor and hull. Just don't expect them to gunfight anything 1 v 1!
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Goumindong

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Re: Most cost effective ways of deploying medium missile mounts?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2019, 12:43:55 PM »

What would be the most cost effective way of deploying as many medium missile mounts to a battle as possible?

Cost could be the cost to deploy or cost to get the right ships, but what is the best choice in vanilla for mass missile deployments?

It depends on the missile. If you want to deploy Salamanders then the Vigilance is your best bet since its fast missile racks almost triple the fire rate. If you want to deploy piliums in a short duration you have the same thing but in a longer duration you want Griffins.

If you want to deploy any other missile the best bet is Falcon(P)'s
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