Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds  (Read 7270 times)

Surge

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Go big or go home.
    • View Profile
Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« on: February 16, 2019, 08:38:22 PM »

Thus far in my current save several cryovolcanic worlds have had no features positive or negative. This seems pretty obviously unintended behavior so I'm curious how to go about finding the cause of and fixing the issue.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2019, 10:53:23 AM »

(Just double-checked that this doesn't appear to be an issue in vanilla...)
Logged

Surge

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Go big or go home.
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2019, 08:35:59 AM »

Yeah I'm pretty sure it isn't a vanilla issue, but I'm unsure if it's caused by a mod or interaction between two mods, nevermind which one.
Logged

Harmful Mechanic

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
  • On break.
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2019, 08:47:35 AM »

Yeah this is real weird. If DME is causing it, I'd like to know (and I know you're using DME because I recognize several names), but I can't imagine what it would be; my additions to procgen are pretty much just do-not-spawn entries.
Logged

Morathar

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 02:32:45 PM »

This sounds very much like the problem that Tartiflette ran into with the Unknown Skies mod: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12041.msg231887#msg231887. Unfortunately, he never revealed exactly what was going wrong, but after poking through the mod itself I've got a theory...

In \data\campaign\procgen\planet_gen_data.csv, it looks like he replaced the "category" of some of his custom planet types:
Code
#US_lava,PLANET,cat_lava,10,-100,-2,2,,-1,around_giant_at_any_offset,0,,,100,150,220 220 220,255 255 255,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
#US_volcanic,PLANET,cat_lava,10,-2,0,2,,-1,around_giant_at_any_offset,0,,,100,150,220 220 220,255 255 255,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
US_lava,PLANET,cat_toxic,10,-100,-2,2,,-1,around_giant_at_any_offset,0,,,100,150,220 220 220,255 255 255,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
US_volcanic,PLANET,cat_toxic,10,-2,0,2,,-1,around_giant_at_any_offset,0,,,100,150,220 220 220,255 255 255,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

My theory is that using the "cat_lava" category is what caused his custom US_lava/US_volcanic planets to generate without any planetary conditions. If that's true, then it's theoretically possible that other categories (say, "cat_cryovolcanic" for example) might cause a similar problem when used for custom planets...
Logged

Surge

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Go big or go home.
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2019, 05:27:06 PM »

and here I was ready to blame Kadur, I've been using Unknown Skies for some time and never had this issue.
Logged

Morathar

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2019, 05:44:23 PM »

Just to be clear - Unknown Skies doesn't have any custom cryovolcanic planets and is NOT causing this specific issue. I'm just saying that the root problem appears to be identical and since Tartiflette already has a workaround, that workaround could theoretically be applied to this issue too once the source mod is identified. Plus, if there is some sort of problem with certain planet categories and sector generation, then it's probably something Alex should know about.

With that being said, I just glanced at Kadur and it doesn't even have a custom planet_gen_data.csv file, so I'm pretty confident it isn't causing this problem either...  
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 06:57:09 PM by Morathar »
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2019, 12:16:56 AM »

Yeah, it shouldn't be Unknown Skies since it only affect the custom planet types, and this one is a vanilla type.
Logged
 

Morathar

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2019, 02:40:04 PM »

I don't know if this is related to the problem, but it's one of those things that I look at and go "hmm, this looks odd...":

Code
id,group,rank,order,hazard,reqSurvey,xpMult,requiresAll,requiresAny,requiresNotAny,cat_giant,cat_barren,rocky_unstable,rocky_ice,barren-desert,lava,lava_minor,cat_frozen,cryovolcanic,irradiated,cat_toxic,toxic_cold,terran,cat_hab3,terran-eccentric,jungle,water,arid,tundra,cat_hab2,multipliers >>>,tectonic_activity,extreme_tectonic_activity,low_gravity,high_gravity,hot,very_hot,cold,very_cold,dense_atmosphere,water_surface,mild_climate,extreme_weather,poor_light,inimical_biosphere,pollution

This is the header row for Starsector's condition_gen_data.csv file. What looks odd to me is that there are several cat_XXX planet category entries (cat_giant, cat_barren, cat_frozen, etc.) but the "cryovolcanic" one is missing the "cat_" prefix. Now, this list also contains specific planet ids (jungle, water, etc.) for planet types that share the same category (like cat_hab3 for jungle, water, etc.), but in cryovolcanic's case there is only one cat_cryovolcanic entry in planet_gen_data.csv. Should that column header be "cat_cryovolcanic" instead? For that matter, should "lava" be "cat_lava"? I can't help but wonder if that would have avoided the original problem with the custom lava/volcanic planet types...

« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 02:43:27 PM by Morathar »
Logged

Surge

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Go big or go home.
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2019, 05:27:03 PM »

Just to be clear - Unknown Skies doesn't have any custom cryovolcanic planets and is NOT causing this specific issue. I'm just saying that the root problem appears to be identical and since Tartiflette already has a workaround, that workaround could theoretically be applied to this issue too once the source mod is identified. Plus, if there is some sort of problem with certain planet categories and sector generation, then it's probably something Alex should know about.

With that being said, I just glanced at Kadur and it doesn't even have a custom planet_gen_data.csv file, so I'm pretty confident it isn't causing this problem either...  
Decided to poke through my mod folder for any mods with a planet_gen_data.csv and... I found one in FDS
Logged

Morathar

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2019, 09:21:28 PM »

Yep, I'd say that's almost certainly the culprit. From what I can tell, the code performs two look-ups when putting together its list of potential conditions for a particular planet.  First, it searches for a column matching the planet type (so "fds_cryovolcanic" in this case). If that fails, then it attempts to find a column matching the planet category (i.e. "cat_cryovolcanic"). Since neither of those are one of the column header names in vanilla's condition_gen_data.csv, it doesn't add anything to its list and generates the empty world as a result.

This also explains why, as Alex said earlier, the vanilla cryovolcanic worlds work fine. Their planet type is simply "cryovolcanic" so they pass the first check and correctly use the "cryovolcanic" column to generate their conditions without even checking for their "cat_cryovolcanic" planet category. It's really too bad that the column isn't named "cat_cryovolcanic" because it looks like that would have worked in both cases.
Logged

Surge

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
  • Go big or go home.
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2019, 10:11:52 PM »

I'll pass this on to the FDS thread then.
Logged

Johnny Cocas

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
  • Murder Wedges!!
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2019, 01:24:11 AM »

Surge and Meso already gave me a heads up, I will fix this ASAP.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience I have caused...
Logged

Johnny Cocas

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
  • Murder Wedges!!
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 02:10:25 AM »

I did some testing, and it appears that the game needs the planets to have the category "cat_cryovolcanic" and "cat_lava" (as my lava planet had the same issue as well) to be able to spawn, but won't have any conditions because the columns in the conditions gen file don't have the "cat_" prefix...
Is this a game bug then? Because the way I see it I can only have them spawn by code in my own systems and set their spawn probability to 0 so they don't spawn anywhere else, as if they do spawn in any random system they won't have and conditions...

EDIT:
Strangely enough, the issue with my custom lava planet only affects the planet I am adding, not the other lava planets, while the issue with the cryovolcanic planets is affecting ALL cryo planets, not only the one I'm adding.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 02:33:13 AM by Johnny Cocks »
Logged

Morathar

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Empty Cryovolcanic Worlds
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2019, 08:36:04 AM »

I don't know if Alex would necessarily classify it as a game bug because vanilla works as designed. I was planning on putting something in the Suggestions forum about adding columns for all of the base planet categories to condition_gen_data.csv, but I haven't had the chance yet. It might even be possible to just simply replace the specific planet types (lava, cryovolcanic, terran, etc.) with their corresponding category types wherever there's only a single planet with that category (terran is the only cat_hab4, for example) and then both vanilla and custom mod planets would theoretically work. Something like this, for example:

Code
id,group,rank,order,hazard,reqSurvey,xpMult,requiresAll,requiresAny,requiresNotAny,cat_giant,cat_barren,rocky_unstable,rocky_ice,cat_hab1,cat_lava,lava_minor,cat_frozen,cat_cryovolcanic,cat_irradiated,cat_toxic,toxic_cold,cat_hab4,cat_hab3,terran-eccentric,jungle,water,arid,tundra,cat_hab2,multipliers >>>,tectonic_activity,extreme_tectonic_activity,low_gravity,high_gravity,hot,very_hot,cold,very_cold,dense_atmosphere,water_surface,mild_climate,extreme_weather,poor_light,inimical_biosphere,pollution

Meanwhile, as a workaround in FDS, I was going to recommend doing something like what was done in Unknown Skies (i.e. use "cat_toxic" for "fds_lava" planets and "cat_frozen" for "fds_cryovolcanic" planets). It wouldn't give you completely accurate conditions, but it should ensure that the planets aren't empty. However, adjusting the planets so they have zero chance to spawn during sector generation works too.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2