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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 351596 times)

DrakonST

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #105 on: February 08, 2019, 09:54:08 AM »

Spoiler
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Whether will be fixed situation when in battle with large count of enemy fleets enemy try to attack you forces when they not have any combat ship and they trying atack with tankers and freighters, and in this atack they very fast go to retreat.

And after retreat they again try to atack.

It very much irritates.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #106 on: February 08, 2019, 09:59:29 AM »

This is fixed, per the patch notes:

Quote
Fixed issue with large fleets full of civilian ships ordering a full retreat shortly after starting a battle
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DrakonST

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #107 on: February 08, 2019, 10:37:53 AM »

This is fixed, per the patch notes:

Quote
Fixed issue with large fleets full of civilian ships ordering a full retreat shortly after starting a battle
And they still want to attacking player?
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Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #108 on: February 08, 2019, 10:42:30 AM »

This is fixed, per the patch notes:

Quote
Fixed issue with large fleets full of civilian ships ordering a full retreat shortly after starting a battle
And they still want to attacking player?
Of course they don't want to attack the player.  But the same "fleet's too large, can't cleanly disengage" rules apply to them, so they don't get a choice.  ...Though, in this case, perhaps it should still be possible for the player to say "Eh, I don't care, let them run regardless".
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #109 on: February 08, 2019, 11:16:41 AM »

Right. It's worth keeping in mind that this will be much more rare with the changes to fleet spawning, so I think it'll move from "annoying" to "entertaining change of pace", especially considering that when civ ships are the only ones on the field, they act like normal combat ships, i.e. no keep-away etc.
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Morbo513

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #110 on: February 08, 2019, 01:06:58 PM »

Really liking the escort behaviour shown off in them twitter posts, it's kinda like what I was getting at with my old formations suggestion but more organic. I'd still love a way to micromanage the ships escorting my own when that's the case, but this looks to be a definite step up.
I am curious to see how the escorts behave when the group is outnumbered and outgunned.
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RedHellion

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #111 on: February 08, 2019, 01:23:06 PM »

Really liking the escort behaviour shown off in them twitter posts, it's kinda like what I was getting at with my old formations suggestion but more organic. I'd still love a way to micromanage the ships escorting my own when that's the case, but this looks to be a definite step up.
I am curious to see how the escorts behave when the group is outnumbered and outgunned.

I'm also really liking this. Hopefully this ties in nicely with carriers no longer getting pushed out of escort slots into bull-rushing the enemy, and means that escort ships will aimlessly sit behind the ship they're escorting - or float directly in front of it while it's firing at an enemy - less often.

Now, adding different/selectable escort behaviour to ships (either as a command or during ship refit) to differentiate between true "escort ships" (ward off flankers, provide fighter/artillery support, etc) and "task force members" (tied to the escorted ship's targeting/engagement behaviour so that they work together as a group to attack) would be an amazing addition :P I've been hoping for the ability to form in-combat task forces that act as a coherent group (and can be escorted, escort, or given commands as a group) for a while, either as a separate "create task force" command or part of the existing "escort" framework!

The systems are getting much better as-is so it's not like I necessarily consider the escort system and automatic AI ship/fleet tasking lacking where it is right now, but it would be a nice addition to force complementary ships to work together as a unit rather than just assigning them all as escorts and hoping the escorts don't just sit on the defensive. And I don't feel like it would turn combat too micromanagement-heavy or too much like a strategy game, since the task force would still be under AI control. Just another way of directing the AI gently, like the current set of orders does.

EDIT: I also feel like this should be in "Suggestions", but I already posted it here so...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 05:17:05 PM by RedHellion »
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Morbo513

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #112 on: February 08, 2019, 02:45:27 PM »

"task force members" (tied to the escorted ship's targeting/engagement behaviour so that they work together as a group to attack)
This
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Zaskow

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #113 on: February 09, 2019, 12:25:16 AM »

Can we expect the autocombat option when fighting defense of survey ships/abandoned stations?
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borgrel

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #114 on: February 09, 2019, 02:26:38 AM »

...Can we queue upgrades from the get go, so that there's no need to go back to the colony if all you want is just a Star Fortress?

No - it's just not set up that way, so it'd be a significant pain to add UI-wise. You'd also be tying down a large number of credits for no benefit (as you also do with a queue), so I think a queue is part "useful feature" and part "it's there because you'd expect it to be there, but not necessarily because it's super useful".

Maybe make the queue only 'hold' money for the next upcoming project? since build times are now much slower, when project 2 starts the player can get a colony intel warning "insufficient funds for next order" (if needed) and have 60+ days to fix it with a count down they can look whenever they want (and maybe a 'transfer funds' button to end warning when they feel they have enough extra money for their personal account.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 02:28:39 AM by borgrel »
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Dalek Ix

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #115 on: February 09, 2019, 03:10:03 PM »

  • Added Prometheus Mk.II to Pather fleets
  • Added Atlas Mk.II to pirate fleets

I am very curious about these two ships, because until now Pirates and Pathers had a severe lack of capital ships bigger than the converted Colossus freighters.

In fact, will we be seeing more converted ships in the future? And will there be a mechanism for turning things like Buffalo, Colossus and Tarsus freighters into Buffalo Mk. IIs, Colossus Mk. IIs/IIIs and Condors?
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #116 on: February 09, 2019, 09:43:30 PM »

Really liking the escort behaviour shown off in them twitter posts, it's kinda like what I was getting at with my old formations suggestion but more organic. I'd still love a way to micromanage the ships escorting my own when that's the case, but this looks to be a definite step up.
I am curious to see how the escorts behave when the group is outnumbered and outgunned.

One of the gifs on twitter shows some of that - an Omen warding off a bunch of frigates. I think overall it'll depend on the specific ships involved and how they all match up; in some cases it'll work well and in some cases probably less so.

Now, adding different/selectable escort behaviour to ships (either as a command or during ship refit) to differentiate between true "escort ships" (ward off flankers, provide fighter/artillery support, etc) and "task force members" (tied to the escorted ship's targeting/engagement behaviour so that they work together as a group to attack) would be an amazing addition :P

I think to a degree it's the same thing - i.e. escorting ships will help out vs primary targets situationally, and start warding off etc when there are flankers. But in my mind that's not exactly the same as a task force, where you'd assume multiple ships of the same size would probably work well together, while escort I think works a lot better when the escorting ships are smaller (and faster) or at least considerably faster.

Can we expect the autocombat option when fighting defense of survey ships/abandoned stations?

I don't think so; I'm not a fan of how autoresolve works out as far as what it does to the game. If, let's say, the goal was to prevent the player from having to fight those battles beyond a certain point, I would prefer a different solution that removes those battles entirely.

(I've got half a mind to remove autoresolved pursuits, either, since those get weird in terms of results/incentives/etc, but I don't think I'll touch it for the .1 release, in any case. It's not great but it's also fairly benign.)

Maybe make the queue only 'hold' money for the next upcoming project? since build times are now much slower, when project 2 starts the player can get a colony intel warning "insufficient funds for next order" (if needed) and have 60+ days to fix it with a count down they can look whenever they want (and maybe a 'transfer funds' button to end warning when they feel they have enough extra money for their personal account.

I see what you're saying, I think, but I'd rather keep it simple.


I am very curious about these two ships, because until now Pirates and Pathers had a severe lack of capital ships bigger than the converted Colossus freighters.

https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/1091076592980426753

Welcome to the forum, btw!

In fact, will we be seeing more converted ships in the future?

Maybe? Depends on what becomes necessary; e.g. the change to fleet spawning that uses more large ships in larger fleets necessitated adding these two.

And will there be a mechanism for turning things like Buffalo, Colossus and Tarsus freighters into Buffalo Mk. IIs, Colossus Mk. IIs/IIIs and Condors?

Almost certainly not. These have been retconned into being hacks of the base blueprints, rather than post-hull-production modifications, though the backstory ought to remain flexible enough to allow for both as the situation demands. But I don't really see adding this as a player-facing mechanic, while potentially cool, it also seems needlessly complicated - that is, it's not solving any particular design problem.
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Zaskow

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #117 on: February 10, 2019, 01:40:28 AM »

I don't think so; I'm not a fan of how autoresolve works out as far as what it does to the game. If, let's say, the goal was to prevent the player from having to fight those battles beyond a certain point, I would prefer a different solution that removes those battles entirely.

(I've got half a mind to remove autoresolved pursuits, either, since those get weird in terms of results/incentives/etc, but I don't think I'll touch it for the .1 release, in any case. It's not great but it's also fairly benign.)

Mm, what? So, you prefer players having easy and boring combats over and over again which only consume time? That's why I refrain from inspect survey ships at some point.
Autoresolve works fine, imao. I've never get weird results when decided to use it. At least when I have far superior fleet. If I get lesser reward, it's fine anyway, because I've saved time.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 01:43:00 AM by Zaskow »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #118 on: February 10, 2019, 08:04:12 AM »

Re: Autoresolve
For a moment, I thought Alex meant colony patrols auto-resolving expeditions/invasions, not player fleet auto-resolving pursuit.  Colony defenses automatically killing invaders is good because player already needs to spend too much time traveling and play whack-a-mole with pirate and pather bases in a burning sector, and failure to do so means colonies (yours or core worlds) get disrupted or even decivilized.  Colonies with heavy industries getting whacked by pirates or pathers interferes with blueprint raids (because I cannot raid without sending stability to zero and risking decivilization).

As for auto-resolving pursuit...

I think I have auto-resolved every fight that allowed it except maybe one or two in 0.9a.  I do not bother with manual pursuits because 1) they take much more time to resolve than clicking for auto-resolve, 2) I risk casualties if I fight without auto-resolve, and 3) some enemies will escape if there are too many, and auto-resolve will probably score more kills.

The problems I can think of regarding auto-pursuit are:
* Anything works, even badly armed clunkers or civilians.  I frequently deploy utility ships like Colossus 3 and Shepherds against everything, and they work.
* Because anything works, you only need one burn 11 frigate to enable pursuit against everything.
* Combined with limited fleet slots and peak performance in big battles, frigates for normal battling become obsolete after early game.

However, before I am willing to bring more frigates and destroyers in my cramped 30 slot fleet, player needs to be able to select all eligible ships that can be recovered (even if player cannot take them all), and discard-and-draw ships if they are more desirable than one in the fleet.  There were times I would be willing to discard a pristine ship to recover a more valuable ship.

Of course, if 0.9.1a replaces 100+ ship fleets with 30 capital fleets, I might stick with my mostly capital-and-cruiser fleet today.  I like to be able to match the enemy, even if it is difficult (as long as it is possible).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 08:15:01 AM by Megas »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #119 on: February 10, 2019, 08:22:39 AM »

I don't think so; I'm not a fan of how autoresolve works out as far as what it does to the game. If, let's say, the goal was to prevent the player from having to fight those battles beyond a certain point, I would prefer a different solution that removes those battles entirely.

Mm, what? So, you prefer players having easy and boring combats over and over again which only consume time? That's why I refrain from inspect survey ships at some point.

Bolded relevant part of my answer. To reiterate, if I felt this was an issue in this case - and I do see what you're saying, but I think having only a probability of defenders, combined with their strength growing, mostly takes care of it - I would prefer removing those battles entirely past a certain point, rather than making them autoresolvable.

There's also a bug where, when fighting a bunch of these defenses, a lone enemy frigate can wander off on the map somewhere and be a pain to track down; this should be fixed for the next release. I think this may also be coloring your perception of these fights, since it can make them drag on quite a bit.

As for auto-resolving pursuit...

I think I have auto-resolved every fight that allowed it except maybe one or two in 0.9a.  I do not bother with manual pursuits because 1) they take much more time to resolve than clicking for auto-resolve, 2) I risk casualties if I fight without auto-resolve, and 3) some enemies will escape if there are too many, and auto-resolve will probably score more kills.

The problems I can think of regarding auto-pursuit are:
* Anything works, even badly armed clunkers or civilians.  I frequently deploy utility ships like Colossus 3 and Shepherds against everything, and they work.
* Because anything works, you only need one burn 11 frigate to enable pursuit against everything.
* Combined with limited fleet slots and peak performance in big battles, frigates for normal battling become obsolete after early game.

Yep, I think that sums it up nicely.
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