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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24)

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Author Topic: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks  (Read 1072472 times)

BFEL

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1515 on: September 14, 2023, 01:26:06 AM »

...KASSADARI SCALARTECH RETROFIT SHIPS

KASSADARI GOWN WHEN?
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Mikomikomiko

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1516 on: September 14, 2023, 04:56:44 AM »

I actually enjoy the GH guns and don't find them underpowered. It just felt like they have a more command point micro intensive RTS playstyle (which is uniquely available to the player) than purely auto battling with micro focus on your command ship.

When playing multiple cruiser level ships with GH long range weapons (as opposed to only a few ships sporting GH guns), the longer-than-average ranges on the GH guns tends to (en masse) volley targets off the map using manual eliminate commands to your fleet, sometimes before the majority of hostiles get into the classic opposing firing lines positions we usually see in the game.

The longer ranges also mean that when things do get into the mentioned firing lines scenario, most of your fleet's ships can still focus fire a single prioritized target due to everyone having longer ranges.

This however kind of means that setting your ships into perma-overdrive goes counter to this volley fire mode of play as overdriven ships tend to get in close with targets (so I barely used the hullmod).
I also use steady ai officers rather than the more famous aggressive ones when playing this style for GH themed fleets

Maybe the point of the overdriven system is to have it on a designated "tank" ship, while the rest of your fleet run DPS?


Does anyone have any suggestions for the most optimal way to outfit Great House ships? I'd love suggestions for Legio as well

If you want to run a mostly GH shipline with GH weapons for mid game, you can try

GH Dominators with 2 Styrix, 3 Karions, the rest as PD
Integrated targeting Unit, Shield Shunt, ECM Package

GH Enforcers with Gardions, the rest as PD
Integrated targeting Unit, ECM Package

Maybe 1 Tank GH Onslaught (Haven't tried this yet), I prefer the old Tank Monitors to run distractions and take on the bulk of enemy fire.

These GH ships have movement based systems and will usually move as a bulk quickly to the center of the field, meeting the fastest ships on the enemy side,
who will find themselves under rain of multiple Styrix kinetic hardflux spam, overload, and then get surrounded (from afar) by the Enforcers who will pelt it with high explosive from around 1.1k range.

Most of the other enemy ships will eventually catch up but can also be focus fired by commands, so you'll find yourself more focused on the map (tab) than on your own ship

As mentioned, I also try to stay away from aggressive captains in GH ships since those tend to break formation and suicide into enemy lines.

Not sure how endgame GH plays as I've yet to experiment with their bigger ships
« Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 07:47:46 AM by Mikomikomiko »
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Shogouki

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1517 on: September 14, 2023, 04:32:09 PM »

...KASSADARI SCALARTECH RETROFIT SHIPS

KASSADARI GOWN WHEN?

That would be frigging AMAZING!  A lot of work though...  I honestly don't know how modders have the time to create, expand and maintain one mod let alone multiples!
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BFEL

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1518 on: September 14, 2023, 07:00:50 PM »

Oh no, I had a terrible idea.

If the Kassadari Gown was a thing.

I would get one.
And name it.

Ains Ooal Gown
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rlb986

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1519 on: September 15, 2023, 07:23:11 AM »

Hi Nia

Can I use your Phoca sprite? I was planning on modding a variant of the Phoca.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1520 on: September 15, 2023, 12:21:46 PM »

It's here where the awkwardness comes: when we play with a GH themed fleet we do know we are intentionally putting a little handicap on ourselves for the rule of cool, looks, because the vanilla counterparts would often be better choices. And that handicap is aimed at us and just us, it's not there to balance a faction that has other strengths (indeed, the same could be said for the GH vanilla ship variants at least: they are basically low tech, but their unique faction flavor is a slight time acceleration in exchange for, of all things, less armor? Ouch!). So yeah, some players could feel a bit "punished" for deciding to use that modded content that was indeed meant for them: ain't that kinda counter-intuitive?

I'm not saying that, since they are player oriented, then they can be overpowered, because that would lead to power creep and would itself lessen our choices in the game. But it may definitely allow for a slightly less draconian balance pass.

So, the intended design for GH content is to be rare oddities that can be found in independent markets. The ships are generally upgrades over their base variants with the armor reduction being a fairly small price to pay for what you receive in return. 10% passive time mult is a very powerful buff in addition to the ship systems generally being upgrades aswell. The weapons meanwhile are meant to fill odd niches that can be very powerful if used right, but not upgrades over the more reliable standard weaponry. All-GH fleets are also not an intended use case. I very much intended the ships to be rare ships to mix into a fleet of vanilla ships. All of the GH gear has its uses, I think, but they aren't meant to be just generally good stuff. In lore all the weapons are essentially tech demonstrators and display pieces rather than fully refined mass-production designs. The Kassadari fleet before the collapse was more of a sales pitch for their tech than intended to actually go to war.
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My mods: Tahlan Shipworks - ScalarTech Solutions - Trailer Moments
It's all in the presentation

Geekin88

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1521 on: September 16, 2023, 08:58:22 PM »

i know its been said before but a great houses revival would be amazing. but i wont beat that dead horse. :)
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ShadowWraith

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1522 on: September 21, 2023, 09:30:36 AM »

Hello All,

First love the mod, just one issue i've seen during the logs "Ship hull spec [tahlan_Higanbana] not found in ship_data.csv" i've checked the post but can't see, has this ship Hull been removed from the mod?
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BFEL

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1523 on: September 23, 2023, 02:12:48 AM »

So is there some secret to getting Rosenritter stuff? Or is it intended to be so rare that I've only ever gotten one of their ship mechs from a "sacrifice ships to get different ship" event, get maybe 6 of their guns during an entire 20+ cycle playthrough, and have literally never seen one of their fighter wings drop, only knowing most of their stuff is a thing from console commands?
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w00d

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1524 on: September 23, 2023, 03:40:42 AM »

hi Modboss

getting a regular crash each time i try take a stored ship into fleet

183101 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils  - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: D:\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\tahlan-shipworks-1.2.6 (data/config/exerelin/mercConfig.json)]
183101 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: trigun
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: tahlan_mercLegio
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: menFromVolturn
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: lastCrusader
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: tahlan_mercKnightsErrant
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: westernesseKingsOwn
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: dickerson
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: tahlan_mercRosenritter
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: steinerGuards
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: theJokers
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: dorasSurvey
183102 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: endbringer
183103 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.merc.MercDataManager  -   Loading merc company: rocketStars
214566 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.niatahl.tahlan.hullmods.barcodes.Wrath.advanceInCampaign(Wrath.kt:24)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.syncIfNeeded(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.sort(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.sort(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.intsuper.  0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.intsuper.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.n.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I. 00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.W.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

anyway to fix?
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StrikeEcho

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1525 on: September 23, 2023, 03:42:16 AM »

So is there some secret to getting Rosenritter stuff? Or is it intended to be so rare that I've only ever gotten one of their ship mechs from a "sacrifice ships to get different ship" event, get maybe 6 of their guns during an entire 20+ cycle playthrough, and have literally never seen one of their fighter wings drop, only knowing most of their stuff is a thing from console commands?
Look around some blackholes, there's stuff there!
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Selfcontrol

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1526 on: September 23, 2023, 02:16:32 PM »

So is there some secret to getting Rosenritter stuff? Or is it intended to be so rare that I've only ever gotten one of their ship mechs from a "sacrifice ships to get different ship" event, get maybe 6 of their guns during an entire 20+ cycle playthrough, and have literally never seen one of their fighter wings drop, only knowing most of their stuff is a thing from console commands?

Look for a one-of-a-kind ship in a black hole  ;)
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royalbert867

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1527 on: September 27, 2023, 11:16:18 PM »

Hello
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NocturneOfSolace

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1528 on: October 02, 2023, 10:39:37 AM »

.
It's here where the awkwardness comes: when we play with a GH themed fleet we do know we are intentionally putting a little handicap on ourselves for the rule of cool, looks, because the vanilla counterparts would often be better choices. And that handicap is aimed at us and just us, it's not there to balance a faction that has other strengths (indeed, the same could be said for the GH vanilla ship variants at least: they are basically low tech, but their unique faction flavor is a slight time acceleration in exchange for, of all things, less armor? Ouch!). So yeah, some players could feel a bit "punished" for deciding to use that modded content that was indeed meant for them: ain't that kinda counter-intuitive?

I'm not saying that, since they are player oriented, then they can be overpowered, because that would lead to power creep and would itself lessen our choices in the game. But it may definitely allow for a slightly less draconian balance pass.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree, the GH Onslaught is MUCH better than normal onslaughts

I did an entire GH playthrough, and I was steamrolling the opposition, GH ships are very very good

The GH Onslaught for example, with it's Cavalry Charge, and if you put Forced Overdrive onto it, takes what is normally a slow and immobile warship into a highly mobile death machine, Onslaught's shouldn't get to move around as much as the GH version does, but it gets to do exactly that
« Last Edit: October 02, 2023, 12:17:45 PM by NocturneOfSolace »
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Killsode

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Re: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks
« Reply #1529 on: October 03, 2023, 06:19:14 PM »

.
It's here where the awkwardness comes: when we play with a GH themed fleet we do know we are intentionally putting a little handicap on ourselves for the rule of cool, looks, because the vanilla counterparts would often be better choices. And that handicap is aimed at us and just us, it's not there to balance a faction that has other strengths (indeed, the same could be said for the GH vanilla ship variants at least: they are basically low tech, but their unique faction flavor is a slight time acceleration in exchange for, of all things, less armor? Ouch!). So yeah, some players could feel a bit "punished" for deciding to use that modded content that was indeed meant for them: ain't that kinda counter-intuitive?

I'm not saying that, since they are player oriented, then they can be overpowered, because that would lead to power creep and would itself lessen our choices in the game. But it may definitely allow for a slightly less draconian balance pass.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree, the GH Onslaught is MUCH better than normal onslaughts

I did an entire GH playthrough, and I was steamrolling the opposition, GH ships are very very good

The GH Onslaught for example, with it's Cavalry Charge, and if you put Forced Overdrive onto it, takes what is normally a slow and immobile warship into a highly mobile death machine, Onslaught's shouldn't get to move around as much as the GH version does, but it gets to do exactly that

it helps if you've got the right armor and hull tankings skills as well, they're pretty much a necessity for any shieldless ship.
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