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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.7.2 - Hammerheaderer  (Read 432723 times)

Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #750 on: May 20, 2021, 07:44:30 PM »

The quest has already been adjusted for the new skills and now scales based on how far into the technology tree you are.

Does this just mean the further you are into the tree the faster the 'research' is? Or Is it how many of the blueprints you can unlock before having to go further into the tree? Haven't played too much of 95a so maybe it's just me being dumb.
You can unlock all the BPs regardless of your current tech skills, it just makes it go faster.

Happened to look at the code yesterday, how it works is:
- If you have a level 5 technology skill (Special Modifications or Automated Ships) your aptitude for the BP unlock is 3
- Otherwise, if you have a level 3 skill (Electronic Warfare/Fighter Uplink) it's 2
- Otherwise, if you have a level 1 skill (Sensors/Navigation) it's 1
- If you have no tech skills at all your aptitude is 0

and each aptitude point makes blueprint unlocking 100% faster.
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Thorveim

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6a
« Reply #751 on: May 21, 2021, 07:30:30 AM »

I'm curious, what do you tend to prefer, the Styrix or the Alteria? Styrix costs more, but seems to have only a TEENY bit more range to show for it.. while the Alteria seems to do way better even against armor (the enery damage of the Styrix against armor not looking like it makes a difference... )

is there something i'm missing about the Styrix to justify the cost, beyond the damn good looks?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 07:32:23 AM by Thorveim »
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JohnVicres

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6a
« Reply #752 on: May 21, 2021, 07:49:33 AM »

I'm curious, what do you tend to prefer, the Styrix or the Alteria? Styrix costs more, but seems to have only a TEENY bit more range to show for it.. while the Alteria seems to do way better even against armor (the enery damage of the Styrix against armor not looking like it makes a difference... )

is there something i'm missing about the Styrix to justify the cost, beyond the damn good looks?
Alteria is objectively superior, and the bass shots are god-tier. Maybe increase the Styrix's burst, while more or less maintaining the flux cost (in your end, lest Nia roasts me).
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Thorveim

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6a
« Reply #753 on: May 21, 2021, 08:24:29 AM »

I'm curious, what do you tend to prefer, the Styrix or the Alteria? Styrix costs more, but seems to have only a TEENY bit more range to show for it.. while the Alteria seems to do way better even against armor (the enery damage of the Styrix against armor not looking like it makes a difference... )

is there something i'm missing about the Styrix to justify the cost, beyond the damn good looks?
Alteria is objectively superior, and the bass shots are god-tier. Maybe increase the Styrix's burst, while more or less maintaining the flux cost (in your end, lest Nia roasts me).

Bass doesn't sound like a gun I found yet.. must keep searching then! (unless it goes by another name in game, which eludes me still)

and yeah, maybe give the Styrix more punch... especially against armor I'd say: think it's niche could be as a kinetic weapon that still punches armor hard thanks to extra explosive/energy damage, but is outclassed in term of pure kinetic. just an idea though. But yeah, 2 more points for almost half the DPS and less per-shot damage.. it hurts on a gun so fancy
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 08:31:11 AM by Thorveim »
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #754 on: May 21, 2021, 09:44:51 AM »

The quest has already been adjusted for the new skills and now scales based on how far into the technology tree you are.

Does this just mean the further you are into the tree the faster the 'research' is? Or Is it how many of the blueprints you can unlock before having to go further into the tree? Haven't played too much of 95a so maybe it's just me being dumb.
You can unlock all the BPs regardless of your current tech skills, it just makes it go faster.

Happened to look at the code yesterday, how it works is:
- If you have a level 5 technology skill (Special Modifications or Automated Ships) your aptitude for the BP unlock is 3
- Otherwise, if you have a level 3 skill (Electronic Warfare/Fighter Uplink) it's 2
- Otherwise, if you have a level 1 skill (Sensors/Navigation) it's 1
- If you have no tech skills at all your aptitude is 0

and each aptitude point makes blueprint unlocking 100% faster.

Will likely change it to being based on the total number of technology skills, given that skill reworks will somewhat break the current system.


Re:Styrix opinions:
It's got 1200 range and far superior efficiency compared to the Gauss. It really doesn't need to be any stronger. Stop trying to use it like a Mk9
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Thorveim

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #755 on: May 21, 2021, 11:59:29 AM »

It's got 1200 range and far superior efficiency compared to the Gauss. It really doesn't need to be any stronger. Stop trying to use it like a Mk9

The weapon isn't bad at all when taken in a vacuum... just overpriced in my opinion when the Alteria has way more kinetic damage output for cheaper to fit.. 400 dps vs 250 (286 against hull and armor if we take max possible energy damage on every shot, and its not like the Alteria  does a lot less per shot damage against armor).. guess it falls down to how much other weapons tax your flux in your overall fit or how much you want that extra 200 range. Overall I'd price them the same or slightly cheaper for the Styrix (or hell, maybe it's the Alteria that's overtuned with its damage output, no idea... but comparing the two makes me feel like something isn't right between these two) As for the comparison with the gauss.. if you can take the flux cost, it's just flat out better than the styrix, both in term of DPS and per shot damage (which means the Gauss deals with armor way better)... for cheaper to fit.
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Nextia

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #756 on: May 21, 2021, 12:56:22 PM »

The quest has already been adjusted for the new skills and now scales based on how far into the technology tree you are.

Does this just mean the further you are into the tree the faster the 'research' is? Or Is it how many of the blueprints you can unlock before having to go further into the tree? Haven't played too much of 95a so maybe it's just me being dumb.
You can unlock all the BPs regardless of your current tech skills, it just makes it go faster.

Happened to look at the code yesterday, how it works is:
- If you have a level 5 technology skill (Special Modifications or Automated Ships) your aptitude for the BP unlock is 3
- Otherwise, if you have a level 3 skill (Electronic Warfare/Fighter Uplink) it's 2
- Otherwise, if you have a level 1 skill (Sensors/Navigation) it's 1
- If you have no tech skills at all your aptitude is 0

and each aptitude point makes blueprint unlocking 100% faster.

Thanks for the rundown, was afraid you'd be locked out of getting further BP's without a higher tech skill but I guess that isnt the case at all.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #757 on: May 21, 2021, 03:49:14 PM »

It's got 1200 range and far superior efficiency compared to the Gauss. It really doesn't need to be any stronger. Stop trying to use it like a Mk9

The weapon isn't bad at all when taken in a vacuum... just overpriced in my opinion when the Alteria has way more kinetic damage output for cheaper to fit.. 400 dps vs 250 (286 against hull and armor if we take max possible energy damage on every shot, and its not like the Alteria  does a lot less per shot damage against armor).. guess it falls down to how much other weapons tax your flux in your overall fit or how much you want that extra 200 range. Overall I'd price them the same or slightly cheaper for the Styrix (or hell, maybe it's the Alteria that's overtuned with its damage output, no idea... but comparing the two makes me feel like something isn't right between these two) As for the comparison with the gauss.. if you can take the flux cost, it's just flat out better than the styrix, both in term of DPS and per shot damage (which means the Gauss deals with armor way better)... for cheaper to fit.

Don't use it then
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Thorveim

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #758 on: May 22, 2021, 02:39:17 AM »

Don't use it then

Did i say something wrong? Its just a balance suggestion, and it sounds like you look at me like i have been trashing on your mod for weeks on end... And looking at older posts, seems like its your usual reaction to negative feedback. Kinda sad. Because trust me, if I didnt like the mod, i wouldnt be here offering what i feel is an idea to make it even better.

Do of it all what you will. I cant force you to do anything, nor do i pretend to. Its just sad that it feels like you immediately grab the pitchfork. Because thats a way feedback could stop coming your way in the end :/
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #759 on: May 22, 2021, 06:13:48 AM »

Don't use it then

Did i say something wrong? Its just a balance suggestion, and it sounds like you look at me like i have been trashing on your mod for weeks on end... And looking at older posts, seems like its your usual reaction to negative feedback. Kinda sad. Because trust me, if I didnt like the mod, i wouldnt be here offering what i feel is an idea to make it even better.

Do of it all what you will. I cant force you to do anything, nor do i pretend to. Its just sad that it feels like you immediately grab the pitchfork. Because thats a way feedback could stop coming your way in the end :/

No, I'm saying if the weapon doesn't work out for you, don't use it. It is good enough as it is, though, being an extreme-range option that has good enough efficiency to still be capable at closer ranges and upper-range armour pen for a kinetic weapon. If I buff its armour pen and/or dps, I have to nerf the efficiency and then it just turns into a Gauss reskin. Range is an incredibly powerful stat for a weapon, but if you don't value it, that's on you. I can't make every gun please everyone. If a weapon doesn't work for you, don't use it. If you think the Gauss is just flat out better, use a Gauss.
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Thorveim

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6
« Reply #760 on: May 22, 2021, 08:12:34 AM »

Don't use it then

Did i say something wrong? Its just a balance suggestion, and it sounds like you look at me like i have been trashing on your mod for weeks on end... And looking at older posts, seems like its your usual reaction to negative feedback. Kinda sad. Because trust me, if I didnt like the mod, i wouldnt be here offering what i feel is an idea to make it even better.

Do of it all what you will. I cant force you to do anything, nor do i pretend to. Its just sad that it feels like you immediately grab the pitchfork. Because thats a way feedback could stop coming your way in the end :/

No, I'm saying if the weapon doesn't work out for you, don't use it. It is good enough as it is, though, being an extreme-range option that has good enough efficiency to still be capable at closer ranges and upper-range armour pen for a kinetic weapon. If I buff its armour pen and/or dps, I have to nerf the efficiency and then it just turns into a Gauss reskin. Range is an incredibly powerful stat for a weapon, but if you don't value it, that's on you. I can't make every gun please everyone. If a weapon doesn't work for you, don't use it. If you think the Gauss is just flat out better, use a Gauss.

I get what you mean here. Tis just my opinion after all, and may be on me for being such a capital ship fanatic for which the extra range isn't as important as long as its long enough, they are too slow to dictate range after all... or at least STAY at range when their ability is all about rushing foward anyway. And also, being an armor tanker meaning I don't really use flux for defense and have more available for offense :p I tend to see more range as less valuable starting at 900 (under 700 being too short.. all these values are before the mandatory integrated targetting module mind you); beyond that the advantage tends to just be having the first volley rather than a lasting edge in the firefight

(I chose to make a slight edit to the stats myself actually... bumped damage to 420, makes it reach 300 dps, definitely more at home against armor and even more efficient than it used to be (1 flux/damage), but not as good a brawler still as the Alteria, and not as armor wrecking as the gauss either, who also comes a bit ahead in dps to make its extra flux use more worth it... but more importantly it feels like a better place for the Styrix's higher OP cost :) What can i say, i just love the looks of the gun too much NOT to try and use it ^^ )

but its interesting that you see it as a gauss competitor and me more as an alteria competitor (both styrix and alteria being kinetics on the long end of the range stick and having similar profiles when it comes to flux efficiency.. gauss feels a lil separate with its "all in 1 shot" nature) Could explain our different points of view in the end :)
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Madskills

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6a
« Reply #761 on: May 22, 2021, 10:32:45 AM »

I was using Traumtanzer for quite some time at this point as my flagship and I have a little bit of feedback on its balance. Initially it looked to me incredibly overpriced (DP-wise) for its stats and mounts. So I decided to playtest it just to be sure that I'm not mistaken before leaving feedback on it. However, as it turned out, it's so synergetic with itself, that it's in fact not only worth its points, it's also incredibly strong compared to other ships of similar cost with player's piloting. The reason why it's so synergetic is because despite its shields being mediocre and range being OK, its system allows it to jump into a fight, unload a whole bunch of missiles, retreat and then just vent hard flux buildup. It's very unexpectedly strong in practice. So I'm just leaving it here because this ship does seem to be not worth its points on first glance, so I expect other people (who have not actually tried it) to complain about it being obviously overpriced.

However, its iconic Vund-Pattern Autoforge sounds amazing mechanically, but in practice does next to nothing: typical long battle takes up to around 4 minutes and during that time it'll recover 40% out of base missile ammunition which is just a little more than 10% with expanded missile racks and the captain skill, which makes this amazing hull mod not very impactful. I think just buffing its production rate might be too OP in overstretched battles, so I think maybe increase it like 3 times, but also give it a cap at how much it can produce? I mean, it's not a huge deal, the ship is very strong as-is, I just wish this unique mod actually had some impact.


Beside that, wow, I finally found the Nirvana. What a ship! However, I noticed that its system does not affect the state of rockets, is that intended?

« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 10:41:16 AM by Madskills »
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Retry

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6a
« Reply #762 on: May 22, 2021, 02:41:34 PM »

Just moved from an older version of Tahlan where the Styrix was 1.6 efficient.  It wasn't good at all at 1.6 efficiency but it's amazing at 1.2, it's light enough on flux enough that you can mount them in batteries with little effort on ships that could barely afford 2 or even 1 Gauss Rifle (ex: Dominator).  Synergizes extremely well with the Ranged Expertise skill too, which basically makes up the damage difference between Gauss & Styrix.  (1000 base range guns do too somewhat, but it's far easier to maintain the goldilocks range on caps with the extra ~300 range from a 1200 base range gun, also 1200 range makes "sniper" cruisers feasible on the right platform).

The Styrix discussion does make me wish the forums or discord had a sort of "Starsector Academy".  Something which explained why, for example, having an extremely long ranged gun with exceptionally flux efficiency (such as Thorveim's suggested 1.0 efficiency Styrix) is an conceptually broken idea.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6a
« Reply #763 on: May 22, 2021, 03:45:59 PM »

I was using Traumtanzer for quite some time at this point as my flagship and I have a little bit of feedback on its balance. Initially it looked to me incredibly overpriced (DP-wise) for its stats and mounts. So I decided to playtest it just to be sure that I'm not mistaken before leaving feedback on it. However, as it turned out, it's so synergetic with itself, that it's in fact not only worth its points, it's also incredibly strong compared to other ships of similar cost with player's piloting. The reason why it's so synergetic is because despite its shields being mediocre and range being OK, its system allows it to jump into a fight, unload a whole bunch of missiles, retreat and then just vent hard flux buildup. It's very unexpectedly strong in practice. So I'm just leaving it here because this ship does seem to be not worth its points on first glance, so I expect other people (who have not actually tried it) to complain about it being obviously overpriced.

However, its iconic Vund-Pattern Autoforge sounds amazing mechanically, but in practice does next to nothing: typical long battle takes up to around 4 minutes and during that time it'll recover 40% out of base missile ammunition which is just a little more than 10% with expanded missile racks and the captain skill, which makes this amazing hull mod not very impactful. I think just buffing its production rate might be too OP in overstretched battles, so I think maybe increase it like 3 times, but also give it a cap at how much it can produce? I mean, it's not a huge deal, the ship is very strong as-is, I just wish this unique mod actually had some impact.


Beside that, wow, I finally found the Nirvana. What a ship! However, I noticed that its system does not affect the state of rockets, is that intended?

The Autoforge has always been intended to give the Traumtänzer a long breath for those really big extended battles that might even take multiple engagements (and therefore no missile restore between engagements). In shorter fights your usual missile reserves should be more than enough.

As for the Nirvana, yes it's intended since the thing is busted enough already, even without infinite missiles.
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HellBent

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Re: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.6a
« Reply #764 on: May 23, 2021, 02:34:50 AM »

Yeah I had lots of issues with 0.6a.
I got an error message and my save would not load, disabling the mod also gave me a (different) error message and would not load my save
I downloaded 0.6 and I can continue playing again.
I see some people mentioned you can manually edit several files but I have never been good at that sort of thing
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