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Author Topic: [0.95a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.7.3 - Hammerheaderer  (Read 460525 times)

Snow_Snarck

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #615 on: January 14, 2021, 07:10:45 PM »

you two guys killed all the fun in this room
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Yubbin

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #616 on: January 14, 2021, 07:13:46 PM »

honestly if I didn't then nia would have
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #617 on: January 15, 2021, 10:40:06 AM »

honestly if I didn't then nia would have

Correct. Rosenritter lorewise would use standard logistics ships with custom paintjobs which just adds needless bloat. GH don't even have fancy paintjobs for their logistics.
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My mods: Tahlan Shipworks - ScalarTech Solutions - Trailer Moments
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Delta7

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #618 on: January 17, 2021, 02:57:09 PM »

The Nessie phase cruiser's fuel costs are several times higher than they should be. Currently it requires 13 fuel per light year, I'm fairly certain it's supposed to be 3, which is more in line with the other cruisers.
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Phoryx

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #619 on: January 29, 2021, 04:40:36 PM »

made account just to ask this, is there a way to remove the "Kassadari Claim" modifier from a colony in game? Like blowing up Kassadar or something ?
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #620 on: January 30, 2021, 03:02:28 AM »

made account just to ask this, is there a way to remove the "Kassadari Claim" modifier from a colony in game? Like blowing up Kassadar or something ?

No
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My mods: Tahlan Shipworks - ScalarTech Solutions - Trailer Moments
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Chairman Suryasari

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #621 on: January 30, 2021, 03:30:25 AM »

made account just to ask this, is there a way to remove the "Kassadari Claim" modifier from a colony in game? Like blowing up Kassadar or something ?

You can (with console command),  please don't bully me Nia.

Spoiler
1. Download console command mod.
2. Go to the their star system.
3. Dock on the planet of your choosing.
4. Press control+backspace to bring up the console command.
5. Type "RemoveCondition tahlan_kassadariclaim"
6. Enjoy
[close]

But i think we should respect Nia decision to make that star system not viable for us, it can be unbalance and cheesy.

Spoiler
Or you can be like me, download and install Seeker Mod that add 3 scripted star systems with a really good change of having a great planet or low hazard planets. Go and install it, and start a new game, find an orange star system with a name starting with "A" and the second planet of it's orbit named "Abraxia", if your lucky you can get up to 6-8 viable planet depending on your seed. Even if it's not, you can easily terraform it with Terraforming and Station Construction.

Seeker - Unknown Contact
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=19414.0

Terraforming and Station Construction
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17094.0
[close]
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Zelnik

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #622 on: January 30, 2021, 09:01:25 AM »

So I tried to express this opinion and mostly had people judging my character instead of actually listening on the discord.

Before people do it again here I want to set a few foundations here.

1. I accept that Nia can ignore my opinions and she should if they do not fit her vision. It is just a user opinion.

2. I do not like having to use console commands if I can avoid it. Please don’t suggest it, I know I can just cheat.


So I wanted to express that the extremely low salvage rate to derelict ships. I view it as punishing the player for exploration. Please hear me out.


StarSector is very much a game about waiting. You wait to go from A to B all the time. You wait as you click through windows and text prompts. You wait a lot. Even when you are exploring you wait. A lot. Time compression makes the game more playable.

Exploration is one of the biggest aspects of the game. You want technology, blueprints cores or colonies you need to explore. Exploration takes time. Lots of waiting.

More often then not you don’t get a lot of reward during exploration either. Sometimes you find a cool piece of tech or a ship, but most of the ships are mudskippers, kites or drams.

When you stumble across something truly amazing after waiting for ages, burning hours looking for useful stuff, nothing in the world is more punishing then “sorry brah it’s super cool but you don’t get it.”   

At the same time it does make that moment when you actually get that fancy ship so much sweeter.


However, given the current mod design, you are more likely to never, ever get one that is salvageable. Ten play throughs and I only ever got one.

Now I am sure that someone here has gotten all of them and will chime in about it.

However, in my opinion, the chance is so low that it’s almost not worth trying. They aren’t a chance for something cool, they are a source of supplies in deep space. They aren’t cool or interesting or a possible jackpot because the odds are not worth spending the time to go and investigate.

It’s the equivalent of a Nigerian prince promising his fortune if you just give him your bank info.

Thanks for reading.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #623 on: January 30, 2021, 11:06:54 AM »

As I've told you before over on Discord: It's my design decision. The relics are extremely powerful and should only rarely be something you can get your hands on. The chance to recover them is 25% which is frankly not even that bad. I also at no point have ever so much as implied that these ships are something you should dedicate your run to finding. They are by design not that.
I won't change it and I have already told you why so I don't get why you had to make a post about it.
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Zelnik

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #624 on: January 30, 2021, 02:11:40 PM »

Because I wanted to express it without people judging my character. I want to discuss it and provide feedback. Who knows maybe more than one person feels that way.

Don’t change it if you don’t want it but I won’t censor myself, nor will I be bullied by people into being quiet. I have never encountered such astoundingly bad attitudes in something as basic as a mod conversation.


Expressing “I don’t like this part of the mod” is not a bad thing. I am not accusing Nia of being a bad mod maker. It’s feedback. I love this mod. Gonna play more of it right now.  I am not even asking for it to change. I wanted to get my point across without rude mods shoving themselves into the conversation and insulting me for daring to disagree with them.

I was assured this community was accepting of feedback. Not all feedback is “wow this mod is the best ever!”


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Retry

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #625 on: January 30, 2021, 04:10:06 PM »

You were not being bullied.  You gave feedback, the mod author returned feedback as to why it is that way, you compared the mechanic to a casino with a massive loss rate.  (Unusual analogy, not least because the gambler doesn't receive a net gain whether they win or lose a Casino game.)  Other people brought in their own feedback to your feedback, and you became defensive and insisted that one of our support staff's feedback is invalid and that he butt out of the overall conversation.

Tahlan's exploration content is additive and not substitutive, content it adds simply would not be there otherwise and is thus a strict gain for the explorer.  Claiming it punishes players is objectively false, it's a strict gain even if the recovery rate were precisely 0% (though that'd obviously be quite boring as exploration content).  I'd personally be interested in a bit of a recovery rate buff, but this was not a case of you getting dogpiled simply for having a dissenting opinion.
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Agalyon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #626 on: January 30, 2021, 05:35:23 PM »

In my experience the negative aspects of the discord community rarely go past being abrupt and probably a little bit rude, which is good. Whats bad is as you say- a dissenting opinion- usually attracts that attitude nearly instantly and from lots of angles, hence the dogpile.

Ive had a few thoughts that set people off, and I've seen others get it much worse, typically without any kind of explanation as to why beyond "nope, thats stupid" especially on more complicated topics which really isn't healthy. Honestly its pretty silly to not expect someone to be a little defensive or just give up if 5+ people gang up on them in the first place. A lot of the time I will hesitate to speak my mind because I simply don't feel like dealing with the fallout if it occurs.

I'm sure I'll be told that this isn't how it is, but regardless of the "baseline" most times people have a dissenting idea they get lit up from all sides, and I've been here a long time to see it happen enough that its hard to forget.

Just to keep this on topic and more directly answer Zelnik, I think the idea is that you're not supposed to actually pursue the exploration ships directly, and more just "get lucky" every now and then. Retry's point that its always a net positive is true, but I think missing the real criticism that if you want THOSE ships in particular, there is no recourse for getting them. Every other unique type of ship has some kind of safety net, be it IBBs or HVBs or quests, you can get them somehow as long as you put in the time or deal with the consequences. If your goal is those ships, it is a casino game in which you mostly lose after a ton of waiting, I dont see how thats up for debate. You can say that isn't how you're supposed to play the game, but thats kind of the point of criticism in the first place. Personally I despise hard RNG, and I wish I could pay somehow to at least up my chances or something and have some actual decision making and interaction with the game beyond a dice roll, but its beyond the scope of the mod.

Zelnik is probably upset because your entire post could be summed up as "that isn't the design direction" which Nia already said, and Zelnik even already said he was perfectly okay with. You're arguing about different things.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 05:50:03 PM by Agalyon »
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #627 on: January 30, 2021, 06:21:51 PM »

I've seen the way both of you (Agalyon and Zelnik) discuss your opinions. Reasonable people can disagree, but both of you are needlessly confrontational. You can't always control the reception you get, but you can rein that in and see if it makes a difference. I think you'll find people are reacting less to your ideas and more to your tone.

That said, I think it's generally good practice to give players a guaranteed shot at mod exploration content. That's because the length of time someone plays a mod is vastly shorter than the base game; stuff that vanilla Starsector can count on you finding eventually might never be found at all before deciding to put the mod back on the shelf. A lot of the fiddliness in good procgen and good random content is establishing a floor of availability and breadcrumbing the player towards it so the player 1) gets a taste of the desirable reward and 2) is inspired to go looking for more.

So throwing in a backstop or two is nice; sometimes it takes the sting out of setting harsher RNG values overall, other times it makes different kinds of design possible. It might also be that the solution is to create a Nexerelin start option or write a story mission.

To bring this back around to attitudes and feedback; if you want to challenge a design decision, it's often better to suggest design solutions. Almost no one is going to take pure negative feedback from a total stranger and go 'I'd better get to work for an unspecified time, redesigning this feature and/or content to appeal to an unknown person's possibly insane and contradictory standards', but if you make a suggestion, you've handed over a test case they can choose to apply. And it neatly shows that you've put some effort in towards the thing you want.
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Agalyon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #628 on: January 30, 2021, 06:43:47 PM »

I've seen the way both of you (Agalyon and Zelnik) discuss your opinions. Reasonable people can disagree, but both of you are needlessly confrontational. You can't always control the reception you get, but you can rein that in and see if it makes a difference. I think you'll find people are reacting less to your ideas and more to your tone.
Really not sure how I can respond to this. I always make efforts to be polite, even in my handful of interactions in discord. What I think is especially interesting is how you apparently know me by name and yet if I remember correctly you were perma banned from discord for your behavior. I certainly don't want people to think its my intention to be rude and I'm sorry if its ever appeared that way, but I'm not sure you're the person to be telling me to correct my tone.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.4
« Reply #629 on: January 30, 2021, 06:53:56 PM »

Ive had a few thoughts that set people off, and I've seen others get it much worse, typically without any kind of explanation as to why beyond "nope, thats stupid" especially on more complicated topics which really isn't healthy. Honestly its pretty silly to not expect someone to be a little defensive or just give up if 5+ people gang up on them in the first place. A lot of the time I will hesitate to speak my mind because I simply don't feel like dealing with the fallout if it occurs.

Usually when people tell you something is "stupid" like that, it's because you're far from the first person to have that idea/opinion and it has been discussed to death already. It may be a bit rude at times, but most people don't like explaining the same things over and over. Don't take it personally, cause it usually isn't.

Zelnik is probably upset because your entire post could be summed up as "that isn't the design direction" which Nia already said, and Zelnik even already said he was perfectly okay with. You're arguing about different things.

If that was genuinely the case, he wouldn't have gone and made a post on the forum thread after having already been told all these things on discord and politely at that.

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My mods: Tahlan Shipworks - ScalarTech Solutions - Trailer Moments
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