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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24)

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Author Topic: [0.96a] Tahlan Shipworks  (Read 1076556 times)

Khaos

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1125 on: September 07, 2022, 11:13:19 AM »

Frankly, the Eradicator is undercosted DP-wise. The Defiance is slated for a makeover in the near future, though, so I'll take a closer look then anyhow. No idea what you mean with PCL.

Proximity Charge Launcher. Defiance, as it currently is, feels like you damn near built it to be the PCL mothership. I can show you footage :)

I can agree that Eradicator is a very universally deployable ship (still not OP category) and I might even agree that the variants with ammo feeders could cost more, but then it could maybe have 24 DP cost, while Defiance are more limited in uses, and could still be at the 20 DP mark.

Can I know what kind of a makeover are you looking at? I mean, if you are going to change weapon platforms on it, you are eliminating something very special (to me at least) and I would be very nervous to know what it might become, or why do you think it needs to change...
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 11:17:01 AM by Khaos »
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Brainwright

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1126 on: September 07, 2022, 05:56:47 PM »

I'll be adding a short delay to regeneration upon taking armor damage in the next version and the Dominator specifically will lose 100 points of armor. That, however, is the most I'm willing to nerf the Daemon defenses at this point as they are intended to require good ship builds, fleet compositions and some player skill to fight effectively. And yes, they have somewhat comparable armor to Remnant, but they also have generally worse shields with worse coverage.

I do want the Daemons to be a challenge, but it's a complicated scenario.  The changes you mention won't do much because the primary issues are the agility, the hull tanking, and the fast repair time.  I've seen Hel Dominators recover from a flameout before I could actually respond to the situation.  Like under ten seconds.  It is almost pointless to try EMPing Daemons.

I don't think many people get how the balance works, because shield efficiency doesn't determine how good a ship is at tanking with its shields, it's the ability to withdraw and vent.  All the daemons are more than fast enough for this.  The only ships break this trend are the ones that cheat like the Paragon and Monitor.  They benefit greatly from increased efficiency.

But the Daemons do have an extra advantage in that they typically run ballistics and missiles, which typically have greater range than energy.  So they act faster, even if they don't have the raw speed of Remnant ships.

As much as I like the Hel Carapace as a concept, it actually accentuated the strengths of Daemon ships. It might be some magic combination of elite Combat Endurance and Damage Control, but the hull tanking of these ships is ridiculous.  Both the higher base armor damage reduction of Hel Carapace and the ability to withdraw at any time to repair armor made them more survivable.

The problems I have with the Daemon series are largely why I find the Remnants a bit ridiculous : you can't pin them down.  My best suggestion would be increasing repair times for flameouts and possibly reducing hull.

Oh yah, and here's a mod list :
Spoiler
3551 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -      Slightly Better Tech-Mining [id: yunrutechmining] [version 0.95.1-2.8.0] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Slightly Better Techmining)
33552 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     $$$ Trailer Moments [id: $$$_trailermoments] [version 1.4] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\trailer moments)
33553 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     A New Level of Confidence [id: pantera_ANewLevel25] [version 25 2.1] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\A New Level of Confidence - 25)
33553 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Another Portrait Pack [id: anotherportraitpack] [version 1.4.0] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Another Portrait Pack)
33553 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Arma Armatura [id: armaa] [version 2.1.2b] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\SS-armaa-2.1.2b)
33554 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Combat Chatter [id: chatter] [version 1.12] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Combat Chatter)
33554 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Console Commands [id: lw_console] [version 2021.12.25] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Console Commands)
33554 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Deluxe Player Flags [id: hm_flagpack] [version 1.01a] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Deluxe Player Flags)
33555 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Diable Avionics [id: diableavionics] [version 2.64] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\DIABLEAVIONICS)
33555 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Fast Engine Rendering [id: fast_engine_rendering] [version 1.1.2] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\FastEngineRendering)
33557 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Forge Production [id: forge_production] [version 1.0.3] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Forge Production)
33557 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Gensoukyou Daze~ [id: Gensoukyou_Daze] [version 0.6.0_rc6, in dev] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Gensoukyou)
33558 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Hazard Mining Incorporated [id: HMI] [version 0.3.4k] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\HMI)
33558 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Hexagonal Shieldidgeridoos [id: HexShields] [version 1.1.0] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\HexShields)
33560 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Industrial.Evolution [id: IndEvo] [version 3.0.e] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Industrial.Evolution3.0.e)
33561 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Interesting Portraits Pack [id: interestingportraitspack] [version 1.2] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Interesting Portraits Pack)
33561 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Iron Shell [id: timid_xiv] [version 1.181] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Iron Shell)
33561 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Kingdom of Terra [id: kingdomofterra] [version 0.13.1] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Kingdom of Terra)
33562 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     LazyLib [id: lw_lazylib] [version 2.7b] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\LazyLib)
33562 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Machina Void Shipyards [id: exshippack] [version 0.55] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\EXPSP 0.55)
33562 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     MagicLib [id: MagicLib] [version 0.42.1] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\MagicLib)
33562 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Nexerelin [id: nexerelin] [version 0.10.5] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Nexerelin)
33563 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Officer Extension [id: officerExtension] [version 0.4.3] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Officer Extension)
33564 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Portrait Pack [id: portrait] [version v1.2.4] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Portrait pack)
33564 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     QoL Pack [id: pt_qolpack] [version 1.0] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\QoLPack)
33564 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     ScalarTech Solutions [id: tahlan_scalartech] [version 0.8.5] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\scalartech-solutions-0.8.5)
33565 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Ship Direction Marker [id: PT_ShipDirectionMarker] [version 1.3.1] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\ShipDirectionMarker)
33565 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Ship/Weapon Pack [id: swp] [version 1.13.0] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Ship and Weapon Pack)
33566 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Simple Player Faction Flags [id: simpleplayerflags] [version 1.0] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Simple Player Faction Flags)
33566 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     SpeedUp [id: speedUp] [version 0.7.2] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\SpeedUp)
33566 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Super Cool Faction Flags [id: scf] [version  192.168.0.5] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Super Cool Faction Flags)
33566 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Superweapons Arsenal [id: superweapons] [version 2.5] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Superweapons Arsenal)
33567 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Tahlan Shipworks [id: tahlan] [version 0.8.5] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\tahlan-shipworks-0.8.5)
33567 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Torchships And Deadly Armaments [id: TORCHSHIPS] [version 0.16rc2] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Torchships)
33567 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     United Aurora Federation [id: uaf] [version 0.7.2f3e] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\UAF)
33567 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     Unknown Skies [id: US] [version 0.43] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\UnknownSkies)
33567 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     VA11 HALL-A Portrait Pack [id: va11portraits] [version 1.2] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\VA-11-Portrait-Pack-main)
33567 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     VIC [id: vic] [version 1.4.3] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\VIC)
33567 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  -     zz GraphicsLib [id: shaderLib] [version 1.6.1] (from D:\Main\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\GraphicsLib)
33573 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Mod list finished
[close]
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1127 on: September 07, 2022, 10:12:58 PM »

You're under the misconception that those changes are to make them less tanky in general. They are to specifically making them die quicker in a situation where they are effectively dead anyhow due to being under focused fire etc.

Anyhow, I found out that their enrage is currently bugged and functions in reverse, meaning they currently have a passive 25% time acceleration that decays as hull goes down rather than the other way around, which explains why they are so much more slippery. Will fix that which will effectively be a massive nerf to the whole set of ship then have to figure out how to make up for that.

So in a way you are getting the nerfs you want, I guess, and I get the headache of figuring out how to make them a challenge again.
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My mods: Tahlan Shipworks - ScalarTech Solutions - Trailer Moments
It's all in the presentation

Brainwright

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1128 on: September 08, 2022, 08:48:30 AM »

You're under the misconception that those changes are to make them less tanky in general. They are to specifically making them die quicker in a situation where they are effectively dead anyhow due to being under focused fire etc.

Anyhow, I found out that their enrage is currently bugged and functions in reverse, meaning they currently have a passive 25% time acceleration that decays as hull goes down rather than the other way around, which explains why they are so much more slippery. Will fix that which will effectively be a massive nerf to the whole set of ship then have to figure out how to make up for that.

So in a way you are getting the nerfs you want, I guess, and I get the headache of figuring out how to make them a challenge again.
It's either this, or I start telling people to engage Legio fleets within the local star's corona.
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ciph

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1129 on: September 13, 2022, 12:32:50 PM »

Thanks for the great mod. I love both Tahlan and Scarlar. There are two things I wanna feedback

1. Hel Centurion's system is entropy amplifier instead of Hel Temporal Shell which state in change log

2. Hel ships are way too tanky.

One Hel Dominator can withstand several capital ships attacks for 10-15 minutes with almost no damage, I also read two other people talking about similar scenarios. Someone say you don't have enough burst damage, but I use many tri-taychon lancers and UAF taufan fighters to nuke them...

The level of tankiness is close to IBB I'll Kill You All ships.

It was not that ultra tanky in 0.8.4


Just noticed 1 is fixed, maybe I was using 0.8.5 beta2

Sounds like you didn't update to 0.8.5 properly. I just checked the download to be sure and the Hel Centurion is correctly set to Hel Temporal Shell. Daemons are the most fragile they've ever been in this update, too, so I don't know what to tell you there.

Ok, problem solved with 0.8.5. It seems it's issue from 0.8.5 beta2..hel ships are like god in that version xD
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Groobus

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1130 on: September 15, 2022, 08:41:10 PM »

Hello! I was wondering if the .ini option to turn off daemons worked midgame. I updated this mod for a new playthrough about a week ago, and the Hel Scaiths in particular are kicking my casual ass. Awesome mod btw, I love the ships in this game!
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Groobus

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1131 on: September 15, 2022, 08:56:10 PM »

Hello! I was wondering if the .ini option to turn off daemons worked midgame. I updated this mod for a new playthrough about a week ago, and the Hel Scaiths in particular are kicking my casual ass. Awesome mod btw, I love the ships in this game!

Nevermind, I just saw the ini note. Guess I'm starting a new game :(
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Warnoise

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1132 on: September 16, 2022, 07:08:27 PM »

I just fought against an legion invasion fleet made of 3 hel scaith and a bunch of hel dominators, After reading the forum it seems I am not the only one noticing that there is something wrong with the balance.

Hel scaith tanking 2 Onslaughts and 1 Legion eating in total like 15 torpedoes and still going strong is definitely something wrong. I like challenging fights but fighting immortal ships that not only tank ridiculously, but also agile and have a lot of firepower isn't fun. Killing one dominator took forever, then when I saw there are bunch of other dominators I simply quit the fight.

Those ships should be like boss ships. Even in Difficult mode there should be like 3 or 4 of them maximum. Not a whole fleet made of them.

Edit: I just noticed that the ones I fought are post nerf. It made wonder how terrifying they were before the nerf.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 07:22:50 PM by Warnoise »
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Brainwright

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1133 on: September 16, 2022, 07:16:56 PM »

I just fought against an legion invasion fleet made of 3 hel scaith and a bunch of hel dominators, After reading the forum it seems I am not the only one noticing that there is something wrong with the balance.

Hel scaith tanking 2 Onslaughts and 1 Legion eating in total like 15 torpedoes and still going strong is definitely something wrong. I like challenging fights but fighting immortal ships that not only tank ridiculously, but also agile and have a lot of firepower isn't fun. Killing one dominator took forever, then when I saw there are bunch of other dominators I simply quit the fight.

Those ships should be like boss ships. Even in Difficult mode there should be like 3 or 4 of them maximum. Not a whole fleet made of them.

As noted in the previous posts, there was a bug in the daemon's enrage mechanic that gave them 30% time acceleration right from the start.

It'll probably be fixed sooner or later, otherwise I just use two or three 1600 strength Nex fleets to engage the Lucifron.  At least two waves.  There's a nice mod on Nia's patreon that updates all the dakka to some pretty stuff.  It'll hold you over.
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Soda Savvy

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1134 on: September 17, 2022, 10:17:37 AM »

The beta patch from last night seems to have this crash once the first month rolls over.

Code
586720 [Thread-3] INFO  data.scripts.tahlan_ModPlugin  - Daemonic Incursion - Market
586720 [Thread-3] INFO  data.scripts.tahlan_ModPlugin  - Daemonic Incursion - Gates
586720 [Thread-3] INFO  data.scripts.tahlan_ModPlugin  - Daemonic Incursion - Ships
586720 [Thread-3] INFO  data.scripts.tahlan_ModPlugin  - The Daemonic horde awakens
586941 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.Faction.setRelationship(Unknown Source)
at data.scripts.tahlan_ModPlugin$TahlanTrigger.reportEconomyMonthEnd(tahlan_ModPlugin.java:361)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.reportEconomyMonthEnd(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.doEndOfMonthStuff(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.nextFrame(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
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atokal

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1135 on: September 17, 2022, 02:14:10 PM »

Nia!!!! What is up with those ships in the 500k Bounty mission?

They are on crack! how do I get them? >:D
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Stormy Fairweather

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1136 on: September 18, 2022, 02:21:31 PM »

if i disable the infernal legion from settings.ini, is there any way to still gain access to their ships and designs? i dont want what amounts to a second pirate faction, but i love ship variety.

edit - in a similar vein, that 'red hand' starting ship, i take it that is exclusive to the start and there is no way to acquire one in game?
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Hrothgar

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1137 on: September 18, 2022, 02:27:27 PM »

Red Hand is spawning as special bounty in bar.
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LordKhorne

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1138 on: September 19, 2022, 08:03:37 AM »

does this mod really nerf hive swarmer or is that a rumor?
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Henri9897

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Re: [0.95.1a] Tahlan Shipworks 0.8.5
« Reply #1139 on: September 19, 2022, 02:06:49 PM »

Hello I just noticed that the Scathach and Edengate were removed is there any way I could add them back into the game ? from a previous version perhaps.
Love your mod and the new demon ships.
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