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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1  (Read 941679 times)

Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1665 on: January 12, 2023, 06:15:29 PM »

The prototype Sparrowhawk and Curse are one of a kind; no blueprints. The Bladewood carrier has its own blueprint package.

None of this is final; I’m tinkering with the availability of unique stuff in the dev version.
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Zax99999

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1666 on: January 13, 2023, 03:02:16 PM »

The prototype Sparrowhawk and Curse are one of a kind; no blueprints. The Bladewood carrier has its own blueprint package.

None of this is final; I’m tinkering with the availability of unique stuff in the dev version.

i just edited the files and put every ship i wanted on the BP you get in the begging apart from the frigate starter ship because I couldn't figure out how to work that one. that includes the Superdreadnought which im super excited to try out. the broken blade prototype ship is Hella expensive tho. 2M credits from the production tab to build.
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whatsinaname

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1667 on: January 13, 2023, 03:57:48 PM »

The prototype Sparrowhawk and Curse are one of a kind; no blueprints. The Bladewood carrier has its own blueprint package.

None of this is final; I’m tinkering with the availability of unique stuff in the dev version.

i just edited the files and put every ship i wanted on the BP you get in the begging apart from the frigate starter ship because I couldn't figure out how to work that one. that includes the Superdreadnought which im super excited to try out. the broken blade prototype ship is Hella expensive tho. 2M credits from the production tab to build.

Look for an istl_alauda in the files, it's a dassault partner to the BB, was completely implemented (save for any method to actually get it) last I checked. might b fun
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TigrisJK

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1668 on: January 18, 2023, 05:19:03 PM »

Been playing with a couple Bladewoods in my fleet lately and is really fun. I'm not sure when it got the unique for 100% extra range but it has made it a very nice support battle cruiser, able to engage with Shell Hawks and Mag Drivers from 2400 ish out with Support Spec. It almost has as much frontal firepower as a BCM Porey and with full complements of Harridans can keep enemy ships EMPed out. Pairs nicely with Tonnerres and Longfires, filling the battlespace with all kinds of death. Absolutely brute forces through even the densest of PD cover, with BB flux ballistic fun to boot.

Really enjoying it, thanks HM!

The prototype Sparrowhawk and Curse are one of a kind; no blueprints. The Bladewood carrier has its own blueprint package.

None of this is finqal; I’m tinkering with the availability of unique stuff in the dev version.
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RazorTS

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1669 on: January 19, 2023, 12:25:58 PM »

It is 4th time im writing this test review. And thank god for windows updates/my forgetfulness you dont have to read essays i wrote before.
This time its 40% shorter!!!

So once tourney was announced I went to test my favorite faction (the sprites are just beautiful) eventually i missed the deadline just had no time at that moment nor 'heart' to see wipes every fight.

Tourney rules were 200 DP fleets, max 3 ships per hull, combined 5 skills total on officers, faction stuff/vanilla/swp. 4 Capture points, 2 per side.
My self imposed rule was to use only faction weapons/wings, no vanilla/swp stuff.

AI vs AI balance all that is important here, weak stuff can be noticed easily

Campaign balance is irrelevant, so any inbuilt campaign layer stuff on combat ships has no value, its just fluff..
"It is good player ship" is not an argument, any ship is!!! Bad ships are weak in AI's hands, good ships are strong! I barely command my own ship when i play or issue orders (unless its 2000+ DP remnant fight or something). I like to see AI fight with the ships i build :D


Tested versus pretty much all Prime/Underdog fleets using AI mod, later on campaign spawned fleets and eventually just sim once i got fed up losing and lazy setting up mod, broke the game many times in the process :D 
Switching to campaign/sim tests allows to see combat results! Can compare and test fleets easily, over 3-4 months ran thousands of tests this way.


Format with capture points dont favor this faction at all, you get pushed out of CP's and get wiped... Fast fragile ships charge CPs and die very fast.


So what is the issue with the faction, well main issue is you overpay DP for most of your stuff. Your caps lose to enemy caps, cruisers lose to cruisers, destroyers lose to destroyers and frigates lose to frigates :D All you can do is stall, pray to rngeesus and let your Tonerres do heavy lifting



Ships


Zelenograd
-
 balanced around Odyssey just tad worse (odyssey has ECCM, +5 OP and 12 OP in effective flux stats over it, 37 in total!!),

ship system issues - Ballistic builds lose all effects, energy projectile lose range benefits and beams are well, beams. Mixing beams (mediums/smalls) with blasters not advised as well, ship will waste charges to use beams so large mount blasters are out of range.

Ship design - massive vessel with its large mounts placed midship that means you lose a lot of range just to get past your own ships shields, even cruisers take cheap shots at you. Short range faction weapons are highly inefficient.

Highly suggest extending ship system benefits to all energy weapons, would let you mix beams and blasters (ballistics, possibly, only get range benefits?, large hybrid slots sacrificed for energy to compensate this change?) and ship should have flux stats to use faction stuff, fat boost of 100-200 dissipation very much needed...


Kormoran -
30 pointers usually have some fancy ship system on top of generous mounts to output big damage, yet this has above average/good speed, no hull or armor, tiny shield, mediocre flux and no dmg, just awful in AI hands...

DP can be set to 22-25. Value of speed with limited damage is low, you have destroyers/frigates doing just that. And the stats not that impressive compared to vanilla or other mods. 

Changes For 30 DP ship - cluster of 4 small mounts changed to medium hybrid (energy if thats bit much), same coverage as whole removed small cluster, so they converge front and back if you draw line long enough ..
Ship system 1 stack (no stacks if thats too much), any movement vector. 190 OP

6B variant - new medium mounts universal, front small composites to universal and 2 small energy to hybrid, large hybrid as it is now 190 OP, 6B Hullmod


Baikal
-
 Champion wannabe, just worse, could use that 15 OP extra to make it on par, build diversity very limited due to lack of flux dissipation.
Actually not a bad ship all things considering, just overcosted at 25DP, Brone non option at 28DP...

+15 OP, aft small hybrid arc increased (nothing is blocking it), DP to 24, would be like champion just slower, wackier arcs, less damage, worse shield :D But versatile and bit cheaper to wield.

Tonerre
-
Very good ship very a take on Gryphon, Grads bit bursty, recommend changing grad refire to 2 - 4 seconds, range 3000-3500, it having better armor and shields than Kormoran drives me nuts tbh so is charging capitals point blank to shoot pd beams >_<, if possible reduce aggressiveness.

Maskirovka -
 very fragile, low OP. low flux, think +10OP would be fair

Goose
-
 20 dp, bit much, it wants better flux/shield, OP for that price, even 6B variant expensive for 20DP however much closer to value  (over 2x missile HP beside extra damage on it, +5 op and hybrid slot), Magelan has ship that fills similar role (Cappela) that is cheaper and way stronger on the field..
Small frontal missiles =>composite, medium => hybrid, 110 OP (6b same size, only missiles differ)

Tunguska -
 Does not have flux to feed large faction weapons or OP to kit properly, large mount destroyers go as low as 8DP (swp Caliber, has dampening field a bit like terashkova), this is most expensive one at 12 points.
+10 OP, medium energy to hybrid, need to think something else for 6B :)

Terashkova - 12 DP ugh, large missile mount is worth it?
Direct fire builds lack flux and OP, no shield and has burn drive, very scary combo. Would price this at 10 DP

Wanderer - 10DP a bargain, love this


Shalaika -
 its combat potential is less than kite, Advanced Nav is op tho and very much needed for fleet to function, otherwise your frigates get wrecked completely, sadly have to pay DP for that benefit. That Itano 3 is a joke...

Sylph -
 needs more flux and op, medium energy changed to hybrid, this would allow wider range of builds, otherwise paying huge premium for that speed and very little killing power on very fragile hull

Vesper
-
 for 7DP could have extra flux/op on it, would price this at 6 with no other buffs

Kobra 3 -
 it is no loa sherman or mid line centurion, both 4 points.. 5 DP would be fair


Borzoi
- made out of one layer of toiler paper, 9 dp is bit expensive, one or two more salvos from reloads before ppt runs out and we have a deal, otherwise 8DP

Husky - unimpressive but they can survive for a while

Jeanne -
 No idea how it uses its shipsystem, must be in weapon range and fighters on attack? If it used ship system more often it would be great, everyone benefits from it...
 
Normandie -
25DP '4 bays and engine' ship... Traceur missiles will keep carrier just behind your frontline blocking other ships..

20 DP 3bays and 2 medium missiles is golden standard for carrier, 25DP for 4 bays is fair but you still missing those missile slots, this can be compensated with wing boosting hullmod (range, speed, recovery or reduction rate, replacement reserve). Either way, extra OP is needed

D'erlon -
 does not use its ship system properly, basically whenever wings are out to attack it will use it when off cooldown, needs to wait for fighters to engage/get in attack run range/or whatever triggers are available.
12 dp is expensive for '2 bays and engine' ship, that traceur need to go..Would say its 10 - 11 DP ship



Fighters

Aigrette -
 single interceptor wing, slow, fragile with inaccurate gun, very bad performance for the role. There is no situation where you will take it.
So to follow description, agility/speed/durability profile matched to harridan, 360 shield, 2 extra missiles, 6k range, 150 - 175 sustained dps,

Icax -
 flying paper brick, anti fighter performance pretty bad due low maneuverability and 0 arc gun, low shield arc and teleport derps, not that good versus ships as well, 30% - 70% broadsword dps, flux issues? Your bombers will clear more fighters than these :D
Used mostly as distraction for bombers. Super expensive for what they can do, 12 OP for this would be fair.
Mirage shipsystem need accelerated shields to combat derp, highly recommend slapping that on, shield arc to 120 or more, weapon arc to 5 degrees, 150-200 sustained dps, agility matched to spirales.

Spirale -
 would be decent but it has flux issues as well? Fragile, about 70 - 130 % broadsword performance vs ships, does ok vs fighters as it has good gun arc/missiles, unless they have missiles or shoot back... +25 armor, 120 sustained dps

Harridan -
 good emp, missiles will fizzle out before hitting emped out fighters quite often, but its mostly missile issue?

Dards - cheap
Foil -  slow rebuild time and fragility dont work well together


Bombers


Mystere -
 delayed missiles tend to be an issue, will fly on top and past the enemy, to shoot that pd gun? Consequence of that quite obvious

Rafalle I -
 nothing to say

Rafalle II -
 sometimes will fly to release bombs point blank, can be an issue... obviously..for both sides...

Demoiselle -
 pretty good, faster missiles help, but will totally die on retreat, flies closer than needs to use PD gun?


Weapons

 DME has every vanilla weapon replacement or adjacent offerings. i treat as vanilla stuff doesnt exists even if they are intended to be used with this faction.


Superheavy Rail -
 gauss replacement - just shorter range and heavier, with some extra dps. Eff should be same as medium/small at 1.2, Gauss pays than unprecedented range/accuracy with inefficiency..

Heavy Linear
-
mark9/needler mix - inaccurate but efficient, struggles with armor as it should..

Howlspear
-
  range mismatch with SH Rail is an issue for my sanity, there's no faction ships that would want to have both anyway so not an issue... DME battleship when? :D

Revanche
-
 that inaccuracy oof, who has the slots to put this on? Needs some accuracy.


Heavy Rail -
 hved replacement - lack of EMP allows bit more power on it (would rather have that emp over little bit of anti armor strength), no reason whatsoever to use this instead of hved. 2.2/2.3 refire both would work.

Twin Linear
-
 AC/needler mix - efficiency helps a bunch .

Heavy Linear Autogun
-
 Arbalest/needler mix - kinda meh, considering it does nothing to armor/hull it wants extra oomph, even peak dps difference isnt that big compared to Twin cannon output. Whole autogun line could use refire boost, slight regen increase.

Assault Rail -
 normaly faction has no access to this but what is this supposed to be? Shorter range, lower accuracy, +1 OP, burst quite similar as heavy rail, steps on linear/rail line toes too much.

Howler -
 just make it maulers replacement, 12 OP 1000 range same dmg stats as is.

Whistler
-
 make it howler replacement :D 10 OP 800 range, its howler.

Whistler replacement
-
 yeah that is needed, just current whistler.


PD

Ripper -
 just tiny bit of accuracy please, clears missiles and fighters quite well, just bit inaccurate.

Flak
-
 description should say 'highly ineffective against all targets', might clear clusters of random stuff but not that particular missile/fighter it is shooting.
 
Tribeamer -
good enough, assume this specific dmg is meant to counter reaper in 3 hits, 176 dmg would be wonderful. just saying :D

Pd beamer -
pretty bad actually, might as well not have any, you just dont have enough mounts to make it worthwhile, match the range to medium variant..

Discharger -
 ammo issues, range needs to be lower than tribeamer/beamer to alleviate some of the problems.


Beams

Ultra Shockbeam -
 would be much worse if it didnt have those tags (ignores fighters), not sure what warrants that (ine)efficiency, double tachlance zelenograd will kill up to twice as fast than dual shockbeam one, shield pierce is THAT good and its stronger versus armor and has more emp! Ships just dont have flux to feed it..

Medium Pulsed -
 remake it as shockbeam, for consistency...

ER Gravitic Lance -
 less range, less efficiency than graviton beam, think there's room for extra power on this, 125-150 DPS 0.9-0.85 eff 100-300 emp would be quite good for faction with limited mounts

Small shockbeam - no complaints, pricey to wield but at least it hits frigate armor decently

ER pulsed - meh

Small pulsed - just use shockbeam?

Quite a selection of beams. Missing medium shockbeam. Expanding gravitic offerings would be cool

just an idea
L/M/S Shockbeams (energy) 1000/800/700 range 1.2 eff, 400/150/100 dps no emp, only armor removal onhit, big and quick burst, slow fire rate
L/M/S Gravitic (kinetic) 1000/800/600 range 0.8 - 1 eff, more or less efficient with size, 400/175/100 dps, 300 - 100 /s EMP (hved is 200/s emp), inflicts strong force on hit, medium fire rate.
L/M/S Pulsed (energy) 1000/1000/1000 range, 1 eff, 300/200/100 dps, fast firing, slow burst compared to other two, extra effect on large mount (blaster beam!)

Projectile

Capacitor scaterlaser -
 autopulse replacement - needs more ammo! (3k dmg/flux vs 4.5k dmg/3.75k flux), or this could be made super bursty instead with 0.3 refire.   

Auto Hybrid Blaster -
autopulse replacement - 6k dmg for 8k flux, decent ammo this time but inefficient.


Obusier artillery -
unsure what this supposed to be or who should mount this, low RoF/dps/accuracy and heavy to mount, projectile speed is low so very few hits reach anything.

Hybrid Blaster - Heavy blaster replacement - has its uses, expensive on your small ships.

Capacitor autolaser - Pulse Laser like- efficient, could use slight regen buff 1.14 or so

Blaze repeater - quite meh

Hybrid Repeater -
 ion pulser replacement - less emp and dps but efficient, sadly its restricted



Snub Hybrid Blaster
-
 expensive to mount and shoot, eff to 1.1.

Hybrid Pulser -
 inefficient repeater, your frigates are crying.

Microlaser -
 IR pulser replacement- just much worse?


Missiles

Itano -
kinda meh, extremely easy to shoot down by fighters and ships, always debate are they even worth it. HP => 50 to match swarmers, base damage 75 would be lovely

Traceur -
Inbuilt on carriers, need range increase so those stay at longer ranges, would fix issues carriers have.

Hellrider -
 fast and effects are pretty, large mount would be cool to have

Marteau -
 Has derpy bomblet spread pattern, very rare for all bombs to hit. Mostly fine (on stronger side).

Jungleur ESAD -
 Hornet like - big salvo on a large mount, slow refire. Firing pattern and low'ish hp makes it easy to shotdown more so than hornets. Mediums mostly tonerres thing.

Chasseur ASM -
 slow refire thus will last long time, multi missiles derps spinning around sometimes
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1670 on: January 19, 2023, 07:57:14 PM »

I've gotta say i widely agree with razor, thinking about it i realized that with DME in my modlist, i havent really ever gone out of my way to acquire or even acknowledged a "hey, thats a good ship" except for the Tonerre. And the only DME weapons i use is the linear gun series because they're just really nice kinetic option.

Although i will note that the Traceur are technically better salamanders, as you can fire them more frequently, so i've used them from time to time when i use anti-engine. Although yeah, the built in ones would make AI ships get far too close.
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RazorTS

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1671 on: January 20, 2023, 05:53:39 AM »

I do use the ships quite a bit but its solely because you can pimp em out with a lot of smods then there is exotica/starship legends..
Pretty sprites is biggest reason to use the ships :D

Wanderer is very competitive ship as well and is my main destroyer i use in all my fleets, always have a bunch of them.
Tonerre obvious pick as well, not as good as  pimped out Gryphon but if you roleplay as faction its the best ship you have and needs less pimping :D


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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1672 on: January 20, 2023, 07:09:46 AM »

Just going to note that it can be helpful to hear what's not working for someone, but I almost never find specific suggestions for changes useful - in some of these cases, the ship or weapon has already been redesigned (Zelenograd) or removed (Pulsed Lasers) in the dev version.

Also, just as a general rule, I'm fine with things being slightly too weak or slightly too strong.

It's good to have the feedback, though.
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JohnVicres

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1673 on: February 06, 2023, 10:37:06 AM »

So, about them Blade Breakers.
Spoiler
I just found out the hard way that the supercapitals are counted as Remnant Nexi in the game's logic. Pretty much lost a Deserter save, because I unintentionally erased the BBs by taking out one (1, singular) of the supercaps orbiting Lenze. I feel like an idiot...
That said, the whole reason I went to engage the Lenze
Guardians is that I could not, for the life of me, find the Bladewood. Combed through the entire star system, interacted with every object I found (besides Lenze), but did not find the darned thing. Where is it, objectively?
[close]
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1674 on: February 06, 2023, 10:43:15 AM »

So, about them Blade Breakers.
Spoiler
I just found out the hard way that the supercapitals are counted as Remnant Nexi in the game's logic. Pretty much lost a Deserter save, because I unintentionally erased the BBs by taking out one (1, singular) of the supercaps orbiting Lenze. I feel like an idiot...
That said, the whole reason I went to engage the Lenze
Guardians is that I could not, for the life of me, find the Bladewood. Combed through the entire star system, interacted with every object I found (besides Lenze), but did not find the darned thing. Where is it, objectively?
[close]
answers
There are several other systems with BB presence, so taking out their base in one system is perfectly reasonable - you'll still have fleets to fight elsewhere.

As for the Bladewood blueprint, I believe it should be in a derelict space station somewhere in the outermost* system ring formation. If you've found that station and still don't have the blueprint, feel free to gift it to yourself with console commands. (This is an abandoned station style station, with a storage facility, not a research-station style loot-it-and-it-breaks-up station.)

* Except that the game's procgen code can add additional items outside the handcrafted ones, so sometimes there's another ring system past it. Note also that this is ring system, not asteroid belt.
[close]
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 11:19:03 AM by Wyvern »
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.1.6a - Update for 0.95.1
« Reply #1675 on: February 06, 2023, 02:26:39 PM »

Yeah, it's in the outer reaches of that system, and definitely not a combat reward from fighting the stuff around Lenze.

I'm actually looking at revamping the way specialty items like that get presented to the player, so whenever I get around to updating, I'll probably put more information in the first post about that.
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