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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Missiles and Sundry - Missile and Ballistic tweaks for vanilla  (Read 73620 times)

DatonKallandor

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Re: [0.9a] Missiles and Sundry - Missile and Ballistic tweaks for vanilla
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 06:57:33 AM »

Wouldn't it work if this mod modified the values of mod missiles too? I mean it's a lot of work and he'd have to pick favorites but following the laid down rules of thumbs he might be able to easily get a good idea for each different missile and then continue balancing through feedback.

That's what I have been doing for personal use, yeah. It's a little more time consuming than doing it for vanilla, because missiles really are the sum of their parts, so I need to try them out in-game to see how they perform, but it's not too bad. I wouldn't wanna do it for all the faction mods though.

For 0.9.1a I'll put out a new version, with some nerfs to single-missile light mounts and the light needler adjusted to give it a role (which it currently lacks due to the 0.9 nerfs). Luckily Alex's values for the heavy needler have given me a great template. Light Needler is going to get best-in-class sustained damage, like it's bigger counterpart.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 07:01:26 AM by DatonKallandor »
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Cyan Leader

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Re: [0.9a] Missiles and Sundry - Missile and Ballistic tweaks for vanilla
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2019, 08:35:04 AM »

Alright, I'd like to try out the version that has at least some mod faction support in the future. Thanks for this, it's a very interesting mod.
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DatonKallandor

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And the .1a compatible version is out. Includes Light Needler Buff (bringing it up to par with Heavy Needler and giving it a role) and new .1a damage and flux stats for Assault Chaingun and Needlers. Missile-only version is included in the download.
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Ioulaum

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Hi DatonKallandor,

Really like your work and idea, good job! :)

Just friendly reminder that you can add "SYSTEM" in hints tab to prevent stirkecraft variants to be available for the player.

Also, the ammo reload rate is accumulate towards reload size, once it filled a reload event will be triggered, so weapon like swarm (&strikecraft), annihilator rocket launcher, sabot/harpoon pod, annihilator rocket pod their reload rate should take more consideration.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 04:58:11 AM by Ioulaum »
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DatonKallandor

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I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the ammo reload rate, but thanks for the tip on the SYSTEM tag. I'm pretty sure keeping them out of any blueprints stopped them from showing up outside arcade mode anyway, but this'll keep them out of there and the codex too (although I didn't mind them being in the codex - fighter weapon stats being invisible isn't great anyway).

Edit: First post is updated with RC3.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 06:23:01 AM by DatonKallandor »
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Volfgarix

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Man, phase ships sure will have a field day with it. At least this is what I think would happen.
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DatonKallandor

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Depends on what you used on them.

If you used to unload all your missiles at once - you can't do that anymore (because re-fire delays are a lot higher). On the other hand being able to pressure enemy ballistic capacity in safety is a big deal. But then again, you can't just dodge a missile salvo or two and then know that you won't have to do it again for the rest of the fight if you're flying a phase ship. Theoretically having infinite anti-matter blaster is nice for phase ships too, but I don't think most ships live long enough to empty those anyway.
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Ioulaum

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I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the ammo reload rate, but thanks for the tip on the SYSTEM tag. I'm pretty sure keeping them out of any blueprints stopped them from showing up outside arcade mode anyway, but this'll keep them out of there and the codex too (although I didn't mind them being in the codex - fighter weapon stats being invisible isn't great anyway).

Edit: First post is updated with RC3.

What I mean is missiles with more than 1 reload size(say sabot/harpoon/salamander pod) has the same reload rate as their single reload(small slot) variants, this is a bit counter-intuitive as it supposed to get better ammo manufacturing capabilities with medium slot weapons.

Sabot SRM Pod should reload 2 missiles other than 4.

An Annihilator Rocket Launcher with the capability of reloading a single rocket warhead for every 15s doesn't feel much difference with their unmodded version, it could take 75s to generate a full salvo.

Basically, this is all about balancing, luckily Alex didn't change anything in the last patch, I'm more than happy to discuss the rationale if you are interested.

With 0.9.1a update Alex add speed/turn rate tooltips for repear and special tooltip for Squall MLRS, hope you could add them in as well :)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 06:27:56 PM by Ioulaum »
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DatonKallandor

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Medium Pod stats are intentional - you get more missiles per hardpoint and most importantly bigger burst damage for using the medium missile versions. I'm pretty sure I haven't touched the either of the Salamanders at all, except for adding an ammo stat so +missile capacity skills and hullmods can affect it. I'll have a look at the Sabot reloading size however.

Annihilator stats are also intentional - the mod isn't supposed to turn missiles into equivalents to ballistic or energy mounts. The annihilator gets you a lot of sustained HE damage that eventually falls off, just like in vanilla - it just never stops working completely. It's possible it's undertuned or an equivalent sized other missile is overtuned though (swarmers might be, it'll need some more testing).

Thanks for the good feedback, I'm getting some good changes in there. I overlooked the tooltip changes in 9.1.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 06:50:58 PM by DatonKallandor »
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Norseman1138

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Hmm. I'm inclined to agree with Ioulam. Paying the extra OP to mount 3 Harpoons in a small pod mount, then having to wait a considerable amount of time to be able to fire them really lessens the effectiveness of a salvo and can be kind of frustrating. I think a good way to balance them would be to allow you to fire as many as you like in salvo, then have them be slowly reloaded one at a time. For things like small Annihilator pods, perhaps increase the time it takes to reload the whole pod, then allow the whole thing to be emptied with a single attack.

I know that with this mod, I've taken to only mounting single missile racks, as anything else doesn't allow me to salvo effectively and the missiles end up getting shot down by PD. Mounting pods with more than one missile quickly becomes inefficient in the extreme.
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grinningsphinx

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I found this mod to be mostly redundant, and just changes things slightly for the for sole sake of slightly modifying  vanilla gameplay.
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Singrana

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Re: [0.9.1a] Missiles and Sundry - Missile and Ballistic tweaks for vanilla
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2019, 11:34:55 AM »

i tested your mod the other day and i actually like it a lot (especially with lots of other mods adding suitable replacement for the non-regen vanilla missiles) but i have encountered a problem with a mod added bomber called the "vulgar", this bomber has 2xhammer torpedo for armament, and with this mod it will NOT seek to return to the carrier to re-arm itself, with the mod off they behave normally, it is probably a good idea to not change the default fighter hammer torpedo to regenerate, and instead make a copy that is used by ships that does regenerate if a mod makes use of a vanilla weapon
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Nordic

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Re: [0.9.1a] Missiles and Sundry - Missile and Ballistic tweaks for vanilla
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2019, 11:25:27 AM »

Hey sorry for the dumb question, but how does one enable the missile only? I tried deleting the weapon_data file but starsector ends up saying missing reaper_fighter. I tried reinstalling and downloading other versions from the github and nothing seemed to work, any advice?
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DatonKallandor

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Re: [0.9.1a] Missiles and Sundry - Missile and Ballistic tweaks for vanilla
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2019, 09:20:10 AM »

To enable missile-only version:
Go into the mod folders /data/weapons folders, delete the weapon_data.csv and rename the missile_only_weapon_data.csv to weapon_data.csv.

You almost had it, just needed to rename the missile_only version.
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Modo44

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Re: [0.9.1a] Missiles and Sundry - Missile and Ballistic tweaks for vanilla
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2019, 01:36:30 AM »

I like the idea of this mod in general, but infinite missiles feels very OP. Even just a few ships can create a never ending swarm of e.g. swarmers. Would it be possible to make the infinite reload have a set prerequisite, like a specific ship or expanded missile racks? If not, is there a mod option to slow down all the free reloads?
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