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Author Topic: XL Turrets  (Read 3537 times)

manictiger

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XL Turrets
« on: January 12, 2019, 11:37:42 AM »

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I couldn't find it in the forums.  I'm working on a dreadnought that uses a turret that's almost sure to break most ships.  I plan to make it only fit on specifically that dreadnought, preferably without making it "built-in".  But this raises a good point, imo.  Why don't we have XL Turrets?  Some of these mods have absolutely ginormous ships with tiny little "large" turrets and it almost looks inappropriate.  Could we have XL turrets some time in the future?
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 11:50:01 AM »

If it fits only specifically on one ship, why can't it just be a built-in weapon? Only thing you're doing is making it more annoying by making the player find and buy the weapon too.

Capital ships already can't bring more than 4 or so large turrets to bear on one target, and most can only do 2 or 3. Ships that are so large that they require a special larger mount size should probably use modules, anyways, to avoid issues with AI and being flat-out uninteresting to fight. There's only so much you can get out of giving something more health and damage like a desperate JRPG developer.

Anyways, the most likely reason is that vanilla has no use for a larger mount size and thus it would only be for the very few mods that would end up using it.
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Goumindong

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 11:59:12 AM »

This type of hing already exists in sylphon i think.

It uses a combination of a normal large slot, a hull mod, and a weapon.

The weapon has an OP cost of like 3000 and the hull mod reduces the OP cost of that type of weapon by 99%.

As such you can then use that slot like a normal large slot, which accepts medium, small, and large weapons, or you can fit the superheavy weapon. Which makes the slot perform exactly like a super heavy or “extra large” slot would.

If the ship did not have any other large slots that were not supposed to be XL you could simulate a universal/hybrid slot in a similar way by having the hull mod also increase the OP cost of large weapons by 100 times. (Thus the large universal would only be able to accept an XL turret)

But even then probably better to just build it into the ship 
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manictiger

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 12:05:14 PM »

If it fits only specifically on one ship, why can't it just be a built-in weapon? Only thing you're doing is making it more annoying by making the player find and buy the weapon too.

Because it's all 4 turret slots that are XL.  If I lock all of them, it'll make the ship extremely boring.  Part of the fun of this game, is being able to swap out turrets.

Plus, it doesn't just fit on the dreadnought.  I just can't gaurantee it'll fit on all capital ships, because it is a little too large to be "large".  The guidelines say I'm not supposed to have overlapping turrets of the same size.

This type of hing already exists in sylphon i think.

It uses a combination of a normal large slot, a hull mod, and a weapon.

I was thinking hullmod, too.  I haven't gotten to that part, yet, but I brought up XL turrets, because it's not just my mod that could use it.  It'd be cool to mix and match XL turrets.  It'd make the scale of dreadnoughts and megacarriers feel more genuine-- like these really are floating towns with huge piles of infrastructure dedicated to creating space scrap.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:22:58 PM by manictiger »
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AxleMC131

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 12:55:14 PM »


Because it's all 4 turret slots that are XL.  If I lock all of them, it'll make the ship extremely boring.  Part of the fun of this game, is being able to swap out turrets.


Then you've got two obvious choices:

1) Forget the XL weapon idea and just make them modular larges. Make the ship interesting in some other way. Weapons are not everything, but you're right about modularity being a big part of the game.

2) Make the XL weapons built-in anyway, and make them extremely unique. Then the ship won't be boring. Have you seen the built-ins on some mod ships?
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AxleMC131

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 12:57:26 PM »


As such you can then use that slot like a normal large slot, which accepts medium, small, and large weapons, or you can fit the superheavy weapon.


Side note: You can't ever put small weapons in a large mount. You can only downsize a mount by one level, not two.
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SCC

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 01:12:59 PM »

Just a suggestion: Metafalica from Sylphon R&D mod in a way "has" three different built-in guns, since it can change their ammunition at will to suit the situation.

manictiger

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 02:07:25 PM »

I think we're kind of missing the point of why I made this thread.  It's not just about my mod, which I'll figure out piece-by-piece.  It's about the need for turrets larger than large.  This game was made back in the early 2010s, when technology and Java weren't as developed.  Is there any programming reason we can't add XL turrets to the game?  It seems like it'd just be a new line in the code, but I barely know anything about Java, so maybe there's hidden issues with that?  Anyway, I know this game has a stockpile of todos, but it seems like adding XL turrets couldn't be that hard.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 02:25:42 PM by manictiger »
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Goumindong

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2019, 02:11:58 PM »

If Alex thinks that he needs XL turrets for ships he will add XL turrets but at the moment i dont see why that would happen.

Its not a tchnical limitation its a “this is what the game needs” limitation
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manictiger

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2019, 02:14:44 PM »

If Alex thinks that he needs XL turrets for ships he will add XL turrets but at the moment i dont see why that would happen.

Its not a tchnical limitation its a “this is what the game needs” limitation

Well, I'd like to see him say that.
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Alex

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2019, 02:37:30 PM »

Its not a tchnical limitation its a “this is what the game needs” limitation

Well, I'd like to see him say that.

Correct, yes.

That's not to say you're wrong for asking/making the suggestion! But adding things like that is always more troublesome than it would seem at first glance. As a quick example, weapon size even factors into the AI's behavior in some cases, so it definitely wouldn't be just one line. There are many other things tied in, as well.

And when something like this is not used by the core game, the chance of bugs slipping through that only affects mods that use this is very high, and there's also a strong possibility I'd accidentally break it in a later release, too.
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manictiger

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2019, 04:31:48 PM »

Its not a tchnical limitation its a “this is what the game needs” limitation

Well, I'd like to see him say that.

Correct, yes.

Alright, thanks.  I didn't consider it could cause a ripple effect like that.  I was able to trim down the size of the turret I wanted without losing too much detail.  I guess it's not important enough to go through the trouble of adding XL turrets yet, what with the colony management still being very new and probably needing tweaking.  Thanks for the prompt response.
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SapphireSage

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Re: XL Turrets
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2019, 06:42:38 PM »

On the note of an extra large weapon though, having a built-in isn't necessarily all bad as the Ships and Weapons Pack's Cathedral class has an extremely large gun on it's center that can deal a ton of damage on its own and warrants watchfulness when on the field, The Tiandong Wuzhang cruiser has a unique built-in spinal cannon and Scy's Keto class carrier (seen on the bottom) has a huge support cannon with a nifty charge up sequence on it to assist its fighters and allies. While it is true that modular ships is a lot of fun when refitting, good use of a built-in can give make a ship a very unique and memorable character.
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