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Author Topic: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships  (Read 8806 times)

Vayra

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 07:43:45 PM »

there's a top speed because Starsector canon is that space is full of gas and vacuum was a horrible lie invented by the NASA company to sell more NASAs

(this is also why weapons have maximum ranges)
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Aeson

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 08:42:03 PM »

Ships can move in more directions relative to their normal frame of reference than just "forwards" and "backwards." Is there a range of maximum speeds dependent upon how close the ship is to moving directly forwards or directly backwards? Is there an arbitrary range of directions relative to the ship's normal frame of reference such that movement in a direction within the range is considered to be "forwards" while movement in a direction outside of that range is considered "backwards," with or without some additional range of directions for a transition between maximum speeds? How is purely-lateral movement affected by differing "forwards" and "backwards" maximum speeds? If I'm coasting forwards and rotate my ship to bring forward-arc weapons to bear on a ship following "behind" me relative to my direction of travel, do I lose speed if I'm above the maximum "reverse" speed? How about if I'm not at the maximum "reverse" speed?

Implementing distinct maximum speeds for forwards and backwards movement is not as simple as just slapping in a new speed attribute for the ships, and the current system is in my opinion good enough as is.

Quote
(this is also why weapons have maximum ranges)
Weapons could have maximum ranges to represent that not all weapons necessarily have the same maximum effective range in space even if theoretical maximum range for unpowered projectile weapons is effectively infinite.

Factors which can realistically limit maximum effective range include but are not limited to sensor accuracy in determining bearing, range, and velocity information on the target, turret rotation and elevation speeds and accelerations, beam spread for laser-type weapons, recoil-related issues for dumbfire projectiles, powered flight envelopes for guided or homing munitions, and target-motion prediction accuracy limits.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 08:49:40 PM by Aeson »
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TrashMan

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2018, 03:00:02 AM »

Acceleration uses 100% value for accelerating forwards and 100/75/50/25% for acceleration in all other directions, depending on the ship class.
The reason behind forward/backward speed being the same is probably one part a nod to the fact that the battles are in space, one part a way to make ships less vulnerable.

I'd like it far more if we could specify our own value. That way you can make slow ships that are great strafers because they have powerful side thrusters and many other combos.

All ships having the same thrust ratios and fixed speeds is boring.
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TrashMan

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2018, 03:06:04 AM »

Implementing distinct maximum speeds for forwards and backwards movement is not as simple as just slapping in a new speed attribute for the ships, and the current system is in my opinion good enough as is.

Given that we have established newtonian physics need not apply, yes. Yes it is as simple as that.

Unless I'm mistaken, strafing in-game is far slower than moving forwards/backwards. Try and experiment. Move at max speed forward, then stop your engines and rotate 90. See if you maintain speed.
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Histidine

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2018, 03:21:27 AM »

Go to max speed, turn 90 degrees left: No velocity change
Go to max speed, turn 90 degrees left, press E to strafe right: No velocity change

Not only should this be known to anyone who's spent more than 10 minutes in combat, it took maybe 5 minutes to verify in simulator (including the time to figure out that you can bump an asteroid to use it as a speed indicator), with the the result obvious to a non-rigorous degree within 30 seconds.
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Deshara

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2018, 06:57:43 AM »

Do they, though?

Yes, because the drop in speed occurs after they impact your little bubble and bounce away, giggling in their stoic space-rock way. Cheeky pebbles have the manners of infants.

The campaign map chronologically operates on several hours per IRL second; it wouldn't be much of a stretch to suggest that you can't get a clear picture of the exact order of events from that.
ignoring that the game explicitly says the asteroid bounces off the drive bubble lol but that's handwaving fluff, the author is dead I choose to ignore Alex's actual words there
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TrashMan

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2018, 02:51:17 AM »

Go to max speed, turn 90 degrees left: No velocity change
Go to max speed, turn 90 degrees left, press E to strafe right: No velocity change

Not only should this be known to anyone who's spent more than 10 minutes in combat, it took maybe 5 minutes to verify in simulator (including the time to figure out that you can bump an asteroid to use it as a speed indicator), with the the result obvious to a non-rigorous degree within 30 seconds.

That's what I've been saying.
If you accelerate forward, then turn, you'll be "strafing" faster than regular strafing, and it's certainly a valid tactic.

But still having different forward/backward/strafe speed that can be set for each ship individually would be better from both a gameplay and from modding perspective.
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Draba

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2018, 03:11:44 AM »

That's what I've been saying.
If you accelerate forward, then turn, you'll be "strafing" faster than regular strafing, and it's certainly a valid tactic.
Unless I'm mistaken, strafing in-game is far slower than moving forwards/backwards.

Just once start up the game and try before posting.
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SCC

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2018, 06:13:48 AM »

That's what I've been saying.
If you accelerate forward, then turn, you'll be "strafing" faster than regular strafing, and it's certainly a valid tactic.
Moving in all directions with the same speed has always been a thing. Have you never piloted a Conquest or an Odyssey?
But still having different forward/backward/strafe speed that can be set for each ship individually would be better from both a gameplay and from modding perspective.
For modding, it would be a gimmick. For vanilla, it would be quite catastrophic.
  • All frigates are now massively worse
  • Medusa, Falcon, all phase ships are now worse off
  • Oddyssey and Conquest are now garbage
  • Ships must become even more cautious, as going too far forwards might mean they get overexposed and can't get back in line before they die
  • Retreating ships are now even more disadvantaged than before
And all that so that slow ships could be always slow, instead of being slow until they accelerate to the top speed.

diegoweiller

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2018, 04:18:32 AM »

What did you expect? Reverse is just a big metal plate going in front of the thrusters applying force in the oposite direction  ::)
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Deshara

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2018, 10:17:01 AM »

^ I like this guy

bonus points if SS still uses the terrible split-bucket design that gets stuck closed by the force of its own reactors sometimes
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TrashMan

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2018, 11:28:50 AM »

Moving in all directions with the same speed has always been a thing. Have you never piloted a Conquest or an Odyssey?

It shouldn't be a thing.
The big engines are at the rear.
Where are the retros? Haw can manouvering thrusters generate the same thrust?

Quote
But still having different forward/backward/strafe speed that can be set for each ship individually would be better from both a gameplay and from modding perspective.
For modding, it would be a gimmick. For vanilla, it would be quite catastrophic.
  • All frigates are now massively worse
  • Medusa, Falcon, all phase ships are now worse off
  • Oddyssey and Conquest are now garbage
  • Ships must become even more cautious, as going too far forwards might mean they get overexposed and can't get back in line before they die
  • Retreating ships are now even more disadvantaged than before
And all that so that slow ships could be always slow, instead of being slow until they accelerate to the top speed.

Catastophic? How so? You say that without knowing what values would be in.
And one could still accelerate and "fake strafe".

You equate change of balance with catastropy. I guess every single major change to SS was terrible then.
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Euphytose

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2018, 04:13:32 PM »

I like my physics realistic, just like my space battleships.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2018, 10:02:02 PM »

None of the physics are even moderately realistic and none of the proposed changes would make them significantly closer to how spaceships actually work... The ships in ss operate like naval vessels not spacecraft. There's no realism argument here, none of it is anywhere close to reality.
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Igncom1

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Re: Forwad and reverse speed is the the same on all ships
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2018, 12:32:13 AM »

These boats sail an obsidian sea.
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