Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[arwan]

(note i tried to do a search, and went 5 pages deep into the bugs section and did not see it reported)

when you apply a gamma core to a colony structure or industry it lowers the colonies bottom line income.

this would seem counter intuitive to what should happen, as one would think a colony that has to pay less to import needed materials, would then have more credits at the end of the month for the bottom line.

also not sure if it could be considered a bug or not. but in the same line as above. a colony that uses say all of the resources it makes.. (3 drugs produced) and (3 drugs needed) on a colony will still make a profit for selling drugs. (this happens for all commodities)

im sure as things are now, if it were adjusted so that your colony only made income on commodities its not using itself. it would be nigh on impossible to make a profit on almost any planet with had anything built on it. as the upkeep costs would eat up everything you made and then some.
 
if and assuming this is a bug. a possible fix / re balance i can think of is to make the upkeep what it costs the colony to purchase the resources for that particular industry. if the colony can make all the required resources local or get them sourced within the faction then the upkeep would be 0 or near 0 (for cases where its imported in faction) and then products that industry makes but that the colony does not actually use are what makes a profit if any is to be made by that industry. ( assuming its not a industry supporting another industry on the colony.. aka light industry for the most part)

------

additionally resources we place on a colony in its resource depot could (should) be attempted to be used and or sold by the colony to improve the bottom line. (possible 2nd option next to or as well as use local resources in case of a shortage) possibly keeping say 1-3 months supply available  in case of that shortage.

[TaLaR]

What happens is your demand reduction reduces global market for goods that colony exports, thus lowering income. Import is free, so lowering it's cost is not a thing.

I'm not saying this makes real-world sense or is good, just how current economy abstraction works (afaik).

[arwan]

so, im trying to wrap my head around this..

colony imports less lets say item "A".. so the product its making... which is different from the item its importing lets say item "B". then gets cheaper on the market.. is that right.. did i read that right..

if thats right.. that seems really odd i need less A to make B... so B costs less (has lowered demand?) on the market.

[TaLaR]

I meant the case where you reduce demand for good that you both consume and export.

[arwan]

not going to lie this is me trying to understand how since the colony needs less of a resource to produce a product that the colony makes lowers the demand for said product somehow. regardless of if that demand is local or global.

Spoiler

confused ,

[close]

edit:
this would also seem to mean that using a gamma AI in your colony is very much an edge case where im assuming that the penalty for not being able to import enough of a resource for production of a product is (much) larger than the amount you lose for using one in the first place. (which i still think is silly that its essentially a debuf to use one without said edge case.)

[TaLaR]

Yes, you should only use gamma cores to compensate shortages.

[Alex]

(Moved this to suggestions.)

A couple of quick notes: in the dev build, demand from player colonies doesn't increase the market value that the player draws from, so that'll fix the gamma cores reducing income, as well as rein in the insane late-game income. There's also an upkeep reduction based on the portion of commodities supplied in-faction; this simulates/gives a nod to imports not being free while also not making them a ruinous expense for new colonies.

[SCC]

There's also an upkeep reduction based on the portion of commodities supplied in-faction; this simulates/gives a nod to imports not being free while also not making them a ruinous expense for new colonies.

How does this change the situation on, say, 250% hazard volcanic world that exists only for mining its rich veins of rare minerals? It got prohibitively expensive when I accidentally let it grow. It would be nice if supplying these money sinks yourself made it possible not to use cores there.

[TaLaR]

(Moved this to suggestions.)

A couple of quick notes: in the dev build, demand from player colonies doesn't increase the market value that the player draws from, so that'll fix the gamma cores reducing income, as well as rein in the insane late-game income. There's also an upkeep reduction based on the portion of commodities supplied in-faction; this simulates/gives a nod to imports not being free while also not making them a ruinous expense for new colonies.

Can player reach full self-sufficiency(=non negative income) after wiping all other factions with these changes?

[SCC]

The player can be completely independent already, it just requires lots of low-hazard planets and alpha cores.

[TaLaR]

The player can be completely independent already, it just requires lots of low-hazard planets and alpha cores.

Yes, but if player demand won't contribute to market value that the player draws from, it will become impossible (under current model).

[Alex]

How does this change the situation on, say, 250% hazard volcanic world that exists only for mining its rich veins of rare minerals? It got prohibitively expensive when I accidentally let it grow. It would be nice if supplying these money sinks yourself made it possible not to use cores there.

For population + spaceport + mining, at 250% hazard, this ... <does a bit of math> makes it barely profitable at baseline w/ no export. Of course, if the ore you're mining supplies demand (and thus reduces upkeep) at other colonies, it could be beneficial even if the income is negative.

Can player reach full self-sufficiency(=non negative income) after wiping all other factions with these changes?

Since, at a baseline, they could remove all industries and have positive income from population, yes

[SCC]

Oh, I misunderstood. Well, in this case, this is a big change for players who want to eradicate all the other factions for fun, especially since it makes Industrial Planning useless once there are no other factions. This is a fringe case, but it's still a bit annoying. I don't think this will lead to a significant gamma core buff. Besides mining (and maybe refining and heavy industry), nothing really lacks anything, unless you have really little accessibility.

[Alex]

Gamma cores aren't the main reason for doing this, yeah, but it'll stop them from being a *de*buff, which is good.

Fair point re: Industrial Planning, but tbh, I'm not overly concerned about what happens after the player's faction is the only one left. That's not really the intended end-game arc of things, and if it were, the game would be basically over at that point anyway.

[Megas]

I hope core world eradication is a victory condition (though not necessarily the only one) in the finished version of Starsector.