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Author Topic: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent  (Read 3460 times)

XazoTak

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Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« on: December 07, 2018, 08:21:59 PM »

You can't beat something with unlimited CR and good flux+shields+PD by attrition. Any attack will do nothing, unless it passes a critical mass of firepower.
When that critical mass of firepower is hard to achieve with 60% of the battle's DP, max battle size factors heavily into victory.
A strong Nexus is virtually unbeatable with only 120DP, though it'd be a pushover with 300DP.

While not exactly a bug, I'm assuming that it's an unintended behaviour to have beating something depend more on something in the options than anything else.
This issue occurs to a lesser extent with Star Fortresses (it's worst with high-tech), but Star Fortresses get a lot of their strength from exterior drones (which don't take lots of firepower to destroy) and are weaker overall, so they can be beaten with 120DP although with difficulty.

Perhaps as vessels approach and surpass 100DP in value, it should be required that they have parts that are not optimally protected by the whole? Star Fortresses are already slightly like this since you can destroy their drones first to weaken them, but a strong Nexus is slightly more strength than a Star Fortress packed into a small well-shielded lump.
Maybe a strong Nexus should have surrounding built-up asteroids that have self-defence weaponry and fighters, and beams that draw away flux from the main hub.
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Alex

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 08:28:01 PM »

That's just "how it works". Low-end battle size settings are there entirely for performance reasons - to allow lower-end computers to run the game decently - and, yes, it'll have an effect on how difficult some fights are. Which is unfortunate, but it can be turned up as needed, and it's better than the alternative of having a bad framerate in most battles.

Edit: so, basically, I get what you're saying! It just seems pretty cut-and-dry that there's no magic bullet here, it's just a low-end-performance option that's IMO better being there than not, but comes with some downsides.

(Let me move this to suggestions, since the meat of the post is really a suggestion.)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 08:39:29 PM by Alex »
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Vind

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 11:50:54 PM »

All you need is a paragon with tachyon lances/beams and flux coils for faster venting together with player skill for best performance. Maybe couple of carriers for other 60 DP to spam chaff strike craft. You will take hull damage from 1-2 beams while venting but after beam/squall bastions is destroyed base is basically done deal.
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goduranus

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2018, 12:08:36 AM »

All you need is a single Harbinger with 3 Reapers, costing a mere 20 points. Don't need nothin more. ;D

XazoTak

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2018, 12:19:03 AM »

All you need is a paragon with tachyon lances/beams and flux coils for faster venting together with player skill for best performance. Maybe couple of carriers for other 60 DP to spam chaff strike craft. You will take hull damage from 1-2 beams while venting but after beam/squall bastions is destroyed base is basically done deal.
I've had totally garbage luck with blueprint drops, tonnes of duplicates.
No Paragon, and only Astral and Condor as carriers. Astral's lack of mobility and extremely high cost makes it pretty much unusable for risky fights.
Got Tempest and Medusa though.

Anyway, fleet optimisation is besides the point here.
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borgrel

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2018, 09:22:11 AM »

Anyway, fleet optimisation is besides the point here.

"Oh no, I cant beat the Ultimate bosses in existence with trash fleets. You must change it now"

What??
Seriously??

This is ALL about fleet optimization!!!
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Baxter

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2018, 01:10:30 PM »

What would you say the optimum battlesize is in terms of balance then Alex? I've been experimenting with 50% more Deployment points and that seems to work for me.
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Alex

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2018, 01:15:27 PM »

What would you say the optimum battlesize is in terms of balance then Alex? I've been experimenting with 50% more Deployment points and that seems to work for me.

To some degree it's preference; for me I'd say somewhere between 300 and 400. For my taste, at 500 (or above, if modded to allow that) the battlefield starts to get too crowded. But I know some people enjoy playing at 1000, and who am I to say that's too much :)

It also depends on the kinds of ships being deployed; 500 points of frigates is very crowded indeed, while if it's mostly capitals...
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Megas

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2018, 03:22:01 PM »

500 hundred is not enough for me, but it causes slowdown on my old computer if fleets have lots of fighters.  I will not use anything less than 500 unless I want to cheese enemy deployments with lower battlemap size.

If 1000 was allowed in normal settings, I would certainly try that.  (Since it is only possible by editing json, that is possibly in the realm of cheating.)
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goduranus

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2018, 06:00:25 PM »

To some degree it's preference; for me I'd say somewhere between 300 and 400. For my taste, at 500 (or above, if modded to allow that) the battlefield starts to get too crowded. But I know some people enjoy playing at 1000, and who am I to say that's too much :)

It also depends on the kinds of ships being deployed; 500 points of frigates is very crowded indeed, while if it's mostly capitals...

I always thought you meant for us to play at 200 this whole time :-\ Looks like I'm gonna have to turn it up.

Alex

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 06:04:05 PM »

I always thought you meant for us to play at 200 this whole time :-\ Looks like I'm gonna have to turn it up.

I don't think there's a wrong way to go, really. It *does* have an impact of difficulty - a small size can make it easier in regular battles, and harder in vs-station ones. For me the sweet spot of balance is, yeah, 300 to 400. But as long as you're enjoying it at whatever value, *thumbs up*.
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Baxter

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2018, 07:15:08 PM »

You might wanna point it out to people, maybe even put it in as part of the tutorial? I had no idea there was such a setting, and when I posted about it on another forum a few other people were surprised too. It's something I wish I'd known about a lot earlier.
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Alex

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Re: Beating a strong Nexus is highly max-battle-size dependent
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2018, 07:16:50 PM »

Hmm - added a line about it to the deployment bar tooltip, seems like a good place to mention that it's configurable.
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