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Author Topic: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded  (Read 4886 times)

XazoTak

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2018, 03:34:47 PM »

Honorable mention goes to the beam eagle: with 2x phase lance (or 3 if you have a good flux managing officer), 6x lrpds, itu and advanced optics (and 3 heavy autocannons for shields) this thing projects a big ring of anti-fighter death. Not as tough by itself against fighters as a Dominator (dual flaks and railguns/lags are tough to beat), but the great accuracy of beams means that this ship will cover all the ships around it out to 1100 range or so.
I had two beam eagles, with a configuration even better against fighters than what you describe (more beam DPS, plus advanced tracking).
They didn't help against the fighter swarm.

you can see an invasion fleet's composition (including fighters) ahead of time. It doesn't feel like you should be -- it feels like cheating -- but I peak the enemy's composition and then rush back to my base to kit out my defense fleet based on it and that works pretty well for me.
I always keep some monitors with nothing but reactors stats and shield hullmods on standby for carrier fleets
I think you're missing the point.
It wasn't a single carrier fleet, it was five balanced fleets. Everything that wasn't a carrier died, creating a carrier fleet.
I did try to get back to base knowing I couldn't deal with the carrier fleet I had inadvertently created, but because it was still technically five separate fleets, when I retreated from an engagement I was instantly re-engaged again by a different fleet to the one I initally fought.
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Goumindong

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2018, 02:29:57 AM »

That is why it’s an honorable mention. Though Thaago is incorrect about the fit. You want 3 tactical lasers and 3 graviton beams (or 3 more tactical lasers). They have longer range, also don’t miss fighters, do a lot more dps, and won’t detour to missiles and flares.
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borgrel

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2018, 11:03:33 AM »

HVY Burst pd(x3) + extended magazines makes an eagle fighter proof far better than IPDAI and phase lances does
Phase lances fire tooo slow and use tooo much flux, sure u can kill 1 (or 2) fighters 1 shot with phase, but the other 18 fighters that are left dont use Vaseline !!!

- after Guardian and Hvy Burst ur best anti anti fighter defense is prox mines, which can protect any ship with a med missile port from fighters for 70%+ of its hardened subs deploy time.
- Then comes Burst pd, hellfire chaingun dual hvy MG and other 400-500 rng fast firing inaccurate weapons that have insane flux efficiency.

Nowhere in the list do u find phase lance, 1500 flux for one dead fighter is just a way to shave 10secs off the time the double dual mg's on fighters will take to flux out ur shields.

and as for beating carriers, u aim for the ship, not the fighters
i will nvr deploy an astral with bombers without having 3 herons of wasps (or claws) to keep fighter balls off the bombing runs
9:6 is a good interceptor:bomber ratio



All of that said:
Carriers should be using PPT when their fighters are set to engage instead of regroup
(the carriers survive because they can spend the entire battle outside of PPT decay range) yet still deal lethal damage.
If the carriers were using PPT through the entire death of multiple Battleships + etc etc etc as described in OP, then none of them would have any CR left by the time only carriers are left on the battlefield
and there would then be no fighters left either
.......
.......
problem solved.
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TaLaR

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2018, 11:09:32 AM »

Carriers should be using PPT when their fighters are set to engage instead of regroup
That's close to how it works - carriers tick ppt when fighters are not at max wing sizes (due to taking losses).
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Alex

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2018, 11:12:09 AM »

Carrier PPT ticks down based on their fighters' proximity to enemies, in addition to the carrier itself. Basically it checks whether there are significant enemies either near the carrier, or near the wing leader(s).
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borgrel

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2018, 11:21:25 AM »

Wierd ......

Destroyer and Cruiser carriers that deployed from the beginning of combat will still be inside PPT after the battleships, that deploy when the first rush dies, are busy decaying
Well, thats my general impression, I will pay better attention and try confirm, but atm i'm killing fleets to quickly to see PPT interplay

Not sure how recent it is but i have seen butt loads of fleets wittled down to only carriers (and lots of those were deployed at start of combat) and i dont remember ever seeing them having PPT problems
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Thaago

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2018, 11:40:04 AM »

Sorry all, but Phase Lances are both amazing anti-fighter and excellent anti-armor/hull, and are significantly better than heavy burst lasers at anti fighter. They won't protect against missiles at all, but thats a different game.

1) Phase lances have better sustained damage - 217 vs 73. If you are swarmed by fighters than heavy burst lasers are big disappointments.
2) Phase lances are more flux efficient than heavy burst lasers at 1.2 f/d as opposed to 1.36f/d.
3) Phase lances have better alpha, firing their whole 1250 damage at first contact. The 5 charges of a heavy burst PD do 735 damage, IE: an entire clip of heavy burst laser will not kill a broadsword (probably will with skills).
4) Phase lances do not become confused by flares.
5) Phase lances have better armor penetration: 1000 beam dps vs 400 beam dps. Only matter for the toughest of fighters, but it also lets phase lances be effective against cruiser armor. As an example, phase lances against a fresh broadsword do 83% damage (on first calculation), while heavy burst pd does 67% damage (on first calculation).

Overall: for anti-fighter, phase lances are many times better than heavy burst pd.

Vs tactical lasers: Different slots so the comparison is harder, but:

0) Tactical lasers use small slots, which are much more plentiful. You can use both tactical lasers and phase lances.
1) Tactical lasers are more flux efficient: 1:1 vs 1: 1.2.
2) Tactical lasers struggle against heavily armored enemies because their effective dps for armor penetration is only 37.5. Against a Broadsword their damage is initially reduced to only 27% of normal! A phase lance kills a broadsword or warthog in one burst.
3) Tactical lasers are fine against shielded fighters when massed, so as long as you have 2 or 3 on the same target its ok. The fighter's dissipation reduces damage done though, while a phase lance burst will instantly overload and destroy.
4) Tactical lasers have better range, so can interdict enemy fighters much further away. This is especially nice for frigates that can somewhat kite the fighters.
5) Phase lances have much better alpha, allowing you to instantly blunt the impact of a fighter attack.
6) Dps is roughly 2.9:1 phase lance:tactical laser. This matches the OP cost fairly well.

Overall: different tactical profiles. Tactical lasers are better for creating a huge zone where fighters don't want to be and will slowly be killed, and only take small slots. Phase lances create a smaller zone where the leading fighters are instantly killed, and offers rough dps/OP parity. Against low tech (heavy armor) fighters, phase lances are superior, while for creating a big fleetwide anti-fighter screen tactical lasers are superior. Luckily a fleet can have both.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 11:47:55 AM by Thaago »
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Goumindong

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Re: Enemy having 120DP worth of carriers fielded
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 11:52:02 AM »

Phase lances overkill fighters (and can also miss) especially if they’re on auto fire they will tend to shoot at the same target in overlapping fields of fire.. Massed Tactical lasers are really effective at cleaning fighters from the sky because their damage application is so consistent. And because fighters don’t have enough dissipation or armor to make much of a difference in terms of overall TTk

Like, phase lances are fine (better at anti-frigate) but tactical lasers are king
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