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[Typo91]

only fighter with 8000 range, from what I can tell so far... every other fighter/bomber in the game is 4000 range.

So basically you just get like a fleet with tons of these going...(like at least 10 light carriers 2x ea) and maybe a few bombers, and its good night everything.

They are stupid fast (450 base)... come with an Ion gun that stun locks/flameouts everything... AND have a Light machine gun for killing missiles and other fighters, AND a SRM launcher.

They go screaming across the map at anything you spot in a horde of death... they *** everything in sight pretty much.

all for only 8 OD points. 

Feels OP when you mass them, though getting them may take some luck. 

[Thaago]

Sounds like you've found a good use for them! 20 wings of a lot of stuff is pretty much straight death, though the range + speed on Thunders do make them flexible with a spotter.

[TaLaR]

It's just 2 fighters with 15 sec refit time.  They will lose horribly to simple Talons in prolonged fight, given comparable wing counts.
Thunder is basically the ultimate seal-clubbing fighter, but it gets crushed by any real opposition. Or at least that's the impression I got from limited testing.

Though suppose player piloted Afflictor/Hyperion as spotter + 10 officer-ed carriers full or Thunders chilling in the corner may be a fun thing to do. Wreck enemies  right during their entry burn

[Typo91]

they are my straight end game fleet right now... have 2 tritac carriers with dagger torp bombers, and the rest of my fleet is sporting Thunders... i just afk every battle, with all the other carriers just guarding the big 2 carriers....  and at the moment i actually dropped all my capitals... and I just have 10 condors and 4 Moras... the condors all have thunders, and the moras have 2 dagger torp bombers and one more thunder each. 

beside that I just have this harbinger which I fly myself... omg thats OP... it can stealth... decloak, instantly disrupt (special abilty) anything its targeted (turning off shields) and I just fire my 3x 4k damage torps (10 shots) for almost guaranteed 10 kills of anything I want each engagement.

rounding off my fleet with just an Eagle fitted for range and a Apogee also range... and even this fleet is killing everything. with a few other supply ships, and a fast burn rate, with low supply use.

[TaLaR]

Full endgame fleet rarely meets comparable opposition. Of course for typical encounter, seal-clubbing Thunders fit just right.

Plus player-piloted Harbinger. It is probably the strongest player ship currently (in sense of how much it actually contributes during combat). Enemies could try to avoid a player-piloted Paragon, but they can't do anything about a Harbinger.

[StarGibbon]

I went all-in on fighters in the last game version too and was killing everything easily until I ran into a hard counter. I hit a brick wall in the form of an enemy Paragon, and just couldn't overwhelm its shields or damage it fast enough. Fighters just evaporated around it and it melted my carrier fleet.  It would be interesting to see if the Thunders ion weapons could stun lock it during the short window the harbinger drops its shields.

[TaLaR]

I went all-in on fighters in the last game version too and was killing everything easily until I ran into a hard counter. I hit a brick wall in the form of an enemy Paragon, and just couldn't overwhelm its shields or damage it fast enough. Fighters just evaporated around it and it melted my carrier fleet.  It would be interesting to see if the Thunders ion weapons could stun lock it during the short window the harbinger drops its shields.

Harbinger does not need any help to kill a Paragon. It just fires Reapers and uses QD to drop shields with correct timing.

[Draba]

Full endgame fleet rarely meets comparable opposition. Of course for typical encounter, seal-clubbing Thunders fit just right.

Plus player-piloted Harbinger. It is probably the strongest player ship currently (in sense of how much it actually contributes during combat). Enemies could try to avoid a player-piloted Paragon, but they can't do anything about a Harbinger.

Harbinger does feel a bit cheesy, with a better CR timer the ability in itself would already be great without the 3 doommounts.
Honorable mention for plasma burn ships, under player control those also feel unfair.

[Megas]

Thunders are the strongest 8 OP cost fighter, if you can keep them alive.  They are a bit strong for 8 OP, but not too out-of-line.  Broadswords are slow killers but are durable, and may kill things on their own that Thunders cannot.

There is one overpowered fighter wing in 0.9, and those are the new Perdition wings.  Roughly as powerful as the new Cobra, but more reliable and cheaper, and noticeably stronger than the equally priced Khopesh wings.  Perditions get very silly with max carrier skills, taking big chunks out of Onslaught.

Perdition either needs to cost 15 OP or have wing size clipped to two.

[cybersol]

Thunders are the strongest 8 OP cost fighter, if you can keep them alive.  They are a bit strong for 8 OP, but not too out-of-line.  Broadswords are slow killers but are durable, and may kill things on their own that Thunders cannot.

The strongest fighter for 8 OP may just cost you only 5 OP, and the 2 OP one is not shabby either. I've learned a lot from reading all your comments and ratings posts Megas, but I think the current Broadswords are really broken. Only 10 flux dissipation means they effectively have just just 1/2 of a LMG instead of 2. It's basically just a turtle shell with a flare gun.  After all the rounds of fighter nerfs, I think both the Broadsword and even the Gladius could use a little buff to help their flux issues.

The Thunder is solid and great if you want to watch things flail around as they die, but there are better fighters if you just want something to die as fast as possible.

[Megas]

5 OP?  The Wasp?  They are good against things where they deploy their mine, and maybe against frigates too, but against bigger things, they are useless.  2 OP?  You mean Talon?  Yes, they are good, but they do not replace as easily as they used to and will die off rather quickly unless you go all into carrier skills.

Broadswords are turtles (for their cost).  That, along with breaking shields, is the point of them.  If I want fighters to kill bigger things, and you cannot spare more OP, and Thunders are too fragile, then Broadswords are the next best thing, and they are common.

If you think Broadswords are turtles, Claws take that up to eleven.  Despite half fire rate from before, they still stunlock and kill things, but maybe not before your peak performance expires.

The Thunder is solid and great if you want to watch things flail around as they die, but there are better fighters if you just want something to die as fast as possible.

You need to spend more OP for such fighters.  If you are limited to 8 OP fighters, Thunders is probably the best you can get at that price if you want those fighters to kill (bigger) things.

One fighter that has become a bit more useful thanks to more fragile fighters is the humble Mining Pod.  If you carrier is a knife fighter (especially Odyssey) and cannot rely on expensive fighters to last, then Mining Drone is better than nothing, and they can distract a little.

[cybersol]

Yes wasps and talons. Good point on heavy opponents, as most of my simulations have been against lighter chase scenario targets like frigates and support ships. To their credit wasps do achieve air superiority over anything instantly. As an additional bonus they have no crew cost. Testing more against heavy opponents thunders do kill faster and safer due to the disabling effects.

On the broader topic, it's too bad you got warthogs nerfed, as 4/9 was just too much of a reduction for them. And I do feel broadswords and gladius could really use a buff, because I would take a claw over them any day. At least claw are good at what they claim to do, though if you wait for them to kill something you will die of old age first.

[Megas]

I cannot take all the credit or blame on Warthog, right?

Warthogs, despite being weakened much, are still fairly good as fighters (they still kill faster than other non-bombers if the target stays put).  What they really need now is more speed, because sometimes, they kill things slower than weaker fighters because even bigger ships like Falcons can run away from them!  All Warthogs really need now is more base speed.  Make their speed with Wing Command 1 the base and that should be good enough.

However, at that price range, better to get a wing of Perdition wings and have them lob Hammers non-stop.  They are overpowered.

@ cybersol: If you read my old topic about 0.8 fighters, I have another one to write for 0.9 soon.  I have just finished getting my test results (minus Tridents), but I need to write the topic first.  I should post it sometime this weekend.

Fun fact:  For knife fighting carriers, Xyphos can be surprisingly destructive if you mass them.  Six Xyphos on Astral can be murder if the Astral can kiss the enemy and somehow bypass those pesky shields.

[solardawning]

Something I love about the current fighter/bomber role balancing is that the ideal strike craft can and will change based on the circumstances.

As mentioned, Wasp and Remnant drones are some of the best for keeping enemy fighters suppressed, as well as taking out enemy missiles. Thunders are fast, long ranged, and well armed, but unless you have an overwhelming number or total air superiority, their low numbers and slow rebuild rate will make that a one hit wonder.

I initially thought the bombers that drop momentum-drifting bombs were useless... until the first time I tried them against a starbase. It was a beautiful sight. Nothing kills a starbase faster than a large cloud of bomblets drifting into it.

Generally speaking, though, mixing fighters is more effective than using all of one type. Using different ones with similar max speeds (so they contact the enemy at about the same time) means that they each cover for the others' weaknesses.
Broadswords take out shields, Warthogs damage armor, etc.

[Megas]

I initially thought the bombers that drop momentum-drifting bombs were useless... until the first time I tried them against a starbase. It was a beautiful sight. Nothing kills a starbase faster than a large cloud of bomblets drifting into it.

Generally speaking, though, mixing fighters is more effective than using all of one type. Using different ones with similar max speeds (so they contact the enemy at about the same time) means that they each cover for the others' weaknesses.
Broadswords take out shields, Warthogs damage armor, etc.

Yes, Piranhas are great for smashing bases, and player will smash bases much, if only to make pathers disappear once per year, nevermind pirates for money (and possibly hiring admins if you visit their comms before killing the base).

Mixed wings are good, but maybe not much better than all bombers or all fighters.  Using most bombers optimally requires the carrier to stay near knife-fight distances to minimize rate drain.  I am considering having specialist carriers, one with all bombers and another with all fighters.  However, that sort of thinking goes out the window when a battlestation gets involved.

Perdition wings are overpowered... against ships.  Against battlestation, I might want a huge stack of bombs to chew through the stations' armor and hull.