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Author Topic: Remove Interdiction Pulse  (Read 2924 times)

Thaago

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Remove Interdiction Pulse
« on: November 25, 2018, 02:42:02 PM »

This has been a topic I've given a lot of thought over the last year or so and I think this is a good time to bring it up. The game would be significantly improved if Interdiction Pulse is removed entirely: Interdiction Pulse as a mechanic exists solely to harass and punish the player. In those cases where the player might make use of it, there already exists other more interesting mechanics that involve player agency and choices.

My interpretation is that the original design goal of interdiction pulse was as a counter to sustained burn. This is not necessary. For AI vs a Player burning to escape, the AI can (and does) just use emergency burn to catch a slower player. For AI vs a player using sustained burn to chase the AI: the acceleration penalty of sustained burn now means that an aware AI can usually juke to the side and escape (and they do). For player vs AI burning, there is both emergency burn and other tools (discussed more later).  

These are the current use cases of interdiction pulse, sorted by frequency of occurrence:

Use case 1) Harassing the player. This can be a single frigate hounding the player fleet spamming interdiction pulse (and emergency burning away repeatedly, as the AI does not have any limits on its ability to do so), or it can be neutral/friendly fleets putting out interdiction pulses to stop an AI smuggler fleet. Either way, this does nothing other than waste player time and make them annoyed.

Use case 2) Ambushing the player. At present there are large, hostile fleets in the world that can stomp an early or mid-game player flat, and I wouldn't have it any other way. However, interdiction pulse, combined with the sensor penalty from sustained burn, makes for a very obnoxious situation: The player is burning along, gets interdiction pulsed by an enemy fleet they cannot see, and that fleet then emergency burns to catch the player. The player cannot emergency burn themselves because they have been interdicted. In practice this either means a retreat with losses (if ironman) or an annoyed reload (if normal mode). A player fleet with better sensor range AND better speed than enemies will be caught with no chance of escape: the sensor penalty from sustained burn blinds the player, and interdiction pulse + AI emergency burn negates any speed advantage the player might have. Player choices such as fleet speed and sensor range have been rendered useless.

The reason I think these ambushes are bad is because the only way to avoid them is to not use sustained burn. This is a reasonable thing to do in known hostile systems - running dark or slow in a system marked by beacons or where hostile factions have bases is just a good idea. But its bad design to expect players to do this when travelling between stars or in an unexplored, unmarked system with game speeds as they are. The pace is just too slow.

A counter argument to interdict+burn ambushes being a problem could be that the player should move out of the interdiction range. However, breaking that down: if the player can do so, the interdiction pulse was useless and there is no loss to gameplay for removing it. If the player could not: then the advise is useless and the ambush still robs the player of fleet building agency and forces a reload.

Use case 3) The player interdicting a weaker enemy. This is both an extremely rare occurrence and is not needed for gameplay. The reason its not needed is that the player has other tools at their disposal:
a) High Top Speed. The player can optimize their fleet speed even with cruisers to catch any AI fleet of less than burn speed 10.
b) Sensor profile: the player can build a fleet to have a good sensor profile and/or use tools such as running dark to sneak up on a small enemy, then burn in either with e-burn or sustained burn.

Players can make meaningful decisions to catch weaker enemy fleets. Those options involve planning and tradeoff: building a fleet with good speed or sensors, and giving up other hullmods that boost in combat stats. They also involve interacting with the game environment: using terrain to hide and ambush, or chasing enemies into terrain that gives the enemy speed penalties.

Use case 4) Using the pulse by accident and losing reputation. Enough said.

So, to summarize: Interdiction Pulse as a mechanic exists solely to harass and punish the player. In those cases where the player might make use of it, there already exists other more interesting mechanics that involve player agency and choices.
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Megas

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2018, 03:38:36 PM »

It seems Interdiction Pulse is a bit faster to activate than before.  Also, Sustained Burn is more sluggish.  It is much easier to get caught by enemies' pulse spam today than in 0.8.  As for player against fleets, all I need to do is make them E-Burn first, then E-Burn my fleet after they are done burning.

At least I am immune to pulses sent by my own patrols.  If they slowed me down, I probably want to go Ming the Merciless and have them executed for being an annoyance.  Pulse spam is effective now... against the player.  Maybe against enemy fleets too when your patrols are doing the pulsing.

I would not mind seeing Interdiction Pulse disappear.
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BillyRueben

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2018, 03:50:34 PM »

The only time the AI seems to successfully use the pulse against me is when there are a couple of frigates that are maintaining contact with me, and they spam it. Super annoying and it really doesn't do much of anything other than waste my time. Also wouldn't mind seeing this feature go bye bye.
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Gothars

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2018, 04:03:17 PM »

I have used it on occasion to catch smaller "system bounty pirates". Doing that without the pulse would have been pretty tiresome, or require "planning and tradeoff" that would stand in no relation to the relatively meager bounty.
Overall, I'd say the benefits of the pulse outweigh the annoyances.



the player should move out of the interdiction range. However, breaking that down: if the player can do so, the interdiction pulse was useless

Non sequitur, the necessity to dodge the pulse might be a use in itself. I caught pirates who dodged an IP right into my arms.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 04:07:27 PM by Gothars »
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TaLaR

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 10:16:58 PM »

You didn't explicitly mention the worst scenario for player - multiple enemy fleets sharing roles (some interdict, others use EB right away).

AI also doesn't use proper ambush tactics (that could make Interdiction truly un-counterable) -> stay still in asteroids/magnetic field (-75% profile) while running dark (-50% profile), then EB or Interdict as victim approaches.

Never used it myself, so I agree that it pretty much exists as player-griefing tool.
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Schwartz

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 10:40:09 PM »

I agree with OPs conclusion. Interdiction Pulse is an AI tool to bother the player. Not really a player tool. Now I don't think that alone is grounds enough to remove it. The player being bothered by stuff that he doesn't want happening to him is part of most games.

And just because there are very few situations where IP is actually useful, that doesn't mean it cannot be useful (or changed to be more useful, or become more useful through other gameplay changes.. you get the idea).

At the core of the issue we have the 'parties chasing each other across a map' mechanic that Warband has, too. Warband has exactly one option to influence this, besides changing the direction you move in. Party speed. Starsector has a bunch of options. Speed, 2 sensor stats and over half a dozen abilities. We're pretty much spoiled, and still gameplay often comes down to 0 or 1. You catch a fleet that is now doomed. You're caught by a fleet and you're now doomed. Nothing can be done about this. It's why I don't think Ironman will be a gamemode for me.

Also consider that people have their preferences regardless of what works. Basically to be able to determine the usefulness of the ability, we'd all have to start using it first. ;)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 10:45:31 PM by Schwartz »
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TaLaR

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 10:49:52 PM »

Also consider that people have their preferences regardless of what works. Basically to be able to determine the usefulness of the ability, we'd all have to start using it first. ;)

Yeah, that's a good point. There might be some cases where using IP would be the best solution, but I just haven't encountered/noticed them.
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Goumindong

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2018, 01:08:24 AM »

I use IP all the time. It’s especially valuable if you’re pirating because trade fleets never want to engage you.

Then again I also tend to get my sustained burn sensor profile under my sensor radius as well so I don’t often get burned by ambush fleets
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Deshara

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Re: Remove Interdiction Pulse
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2018, 01:32:22 AM »

skimmed the thread to see if anybody pointed it out; you can counter a interdiction pulse with sensor burst -- it isn't unavoidable, it's completely unavoidable every time but you lose whatever movement ability you were using
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