Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.  (Read 2798 times)

NephilimNexus

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« on: November 21, 2018, 11:15:55 PM »

1: Allow multiple instances of certain building types on single planets.  This would go a long way towards specialization and putting an emphasis on trade between colonies, in particular food production, mining and industry.  That way you're one terran/water world can have multiple farms that export food to your metallic planet colonies that can't grow any at all, but are rich in mineral wealth.

2: Specialized industry types.  These should be in addition to, not a replacement of, existing general purpose industry blocks.  For example, a type that only produces supplies, but lots of them.  Or a drug manufacturing center.  Right now we have the fuel production center but that's the only real specialist industry so far.

3: Manual AI fleet creation option.  Right now colonies, while expensive to set up, generate obscene amount of money once they get going.  Right now ship build orders exist in two different worlds: manual orders for your own personal use, and a priorities box system for creating AI fleets.  I propose an option (selected at new game start only) to merge these two into a single system wherein the player manually orders all ship construction and no AI fleets get automatically built at all.  Instead, in this mode, any ships in player storage can be assembled into AI fleets that will then patrol in an area dictated by their military base size.  This would make an excellent money sink, obviously, and give players much more control over what they send into the field.  It also gives a good place to get rid of surplus ships besides just selling them outright.  When the situation is dire enough, just press captured enemy ships into service into your own fleets.

Also manual control over at least the creation of merchants would be nice as well, and give players more reason to actually invest in those ship types.  See also "Distant Worlds" when playing as a pirate faction.

4: More military base types.  This would require new planet siege mechanics, but I feel it would be worth it.  In addition to the general purpose types we have now, have bases that specialize in producing (training) crew, marines, orbital defense or pure fleet coordination.  Also, instead of the planetary shield generator being a flat defense bonus, have it instead be a system that stalls an enemy fleet in orbit for a certain amount of time so that you or your AI fleets have more time to intercept them.  Orbital defense should just straight up inflict damage on attacking ships, depending on their level. 

5: Overhaul AI Cores & Bonus Devices.  An AI core should be more than just something that gives +1 to anything you stick it into.  They are, after all, learning machines and as such they should be treated more as little NPCs rather than mere items.  By this I mean that an AI grades should act as skill caps and that they should level up over time just like organics.  When placed in a planetary role they will slowly but surely learn to specialize in helping whatever facility that they are in.  This would be easiest to explain with examples...

Example A: Player finds a Gamma level core, with a max level of 5.  They decide to plug into a planet's farming slot.  Since it starts off as level 1, it gives +1 to farming.  As time goes on it gets better at this, eventually working it's way up to +5 worth of bonuses.  Things such as production and cost reduction are now skills that are selected when an AI levels up, same as with NPC assistants.  Doing this, the player decides to allocate +3 to food output and +2 to overhead reduction (-20% to expenses).

Example B: A Beta level core, with a max level of 10, is assigned to a captain a ship in the player's fleet.  They function exactly like an organic NPC captain, but can only go up to level 10.  The skills that they can learn on level up will be from the same list, too.

Example C: A rare Alpha level core is found with a max level of 20 and the player decides to use it as a colony administrator.  Again, this pulls from the same planet governor skill lists as regular NPCs, as well as all the possible specialized buildings as well.  The player then puts +2 into heavy industry output, +8 into station cost reduction (-80%), +5 into stability and the last +5 into planet defense bonuses.  Of course it will probably take a good 20 years for it to learn all this stuff, so that kind of power comes at a significant cost in time.

When a player removes a core it retains the skills it has learned, to prevent people from exploiting a single AI core to be used across several different types of job.  The advantage of AI administrators and officers is that they won't count towards your hiring limit and require no pay.

Meanwhile, only the fuel facility and the heavy industry site have specialized gear.  Let's see more types for all the building types to add variety (and avoiding stockpiles of redundant units once your colony limit is reached).

6: Research Labs.  Good gawd, hunting for blueprints is tedious.  For those who'd rather just throw time and money at the problem, this would make a great alternative.  Pick a blueprint that your don't already have, chuck cash into a slider bar and wait.  Easy.

7: Repair Facilities.  Why do we have to fly around in space with a full crew in order to repair damaged ships?  Why not just drop them off in drydock and let your peons do the work for you?  Can rapidly heal regular damage (a lot easier to fix a car when it isn't, y'know, being driven at the time) and could also slowly remove major "orange bar" damage as well.  Also allows more efficient scrapping of ships, getting much more material out of them than when trying to do the same thing in space.

8: Embassy.  Stealing an idea straight from Tropico, this building would have a pull down option for which other faction you wish to target.  Every month your relationship with that group goes up by 1 point.

9: Hydroponics.  For those who really want to be able to farm anywhere, have this option for all those planets with no viable farmland.  Works like a regular farm but costs twice as much in upkeep.  Simple.

10: Comstar Stuff.  Not enough "stable positions" in your system?  This specialized building type combines the nav bouy, sensor boost and communications sat perks into one safe place on the ground where no bad guys can get to it.  Of course it's costing you a valuable planet slot to do it, but hey, nothing is free.
Logged

Schwartz

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1453
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 11:34:42 PM »

1: Would be extremely unbalanced I feel. I think goods work off a logarithmic scale or with orders of magnitude, anyway. So a high food planet should be able to supply several other colonies. I think. There's a blog post about this, but Alex has reworked the economy system since. Look at how mediocre a lot of the core colonies are. Look how easy it is to chisel out a high market share. One building type per planet works off the idea that you are *already* stressing that area to its limit based on available population. Which is why cost & reward go up with each population step.

5: I rather like the way AI cores work now. It's simple and effective. Compared to how useful cores are for colonies, having them as ship captains seems a waste when you can find officers everywhere. The idea to forgo a certain surplus in order to reduce overhead is interesting though.

6: Again, very unbalanced. Money has lost its value massively in 0.9 - which is a bad thing and a good thing. Bad, because the game gets easier later on. Good, because finally there's no excuse not to take the occasional loss when you can build up your fleet again without having to count every penny. I'm finding myself using the restore function more, savescumming less and taking more ship losses. Ahem.. sorry about the tangent. Blueprints are the real endgame currency. I've only found a couple so far, and having a cheap-currency-for-real-currency exchange would make that feeling of rarity and accomplishment with blueprints evaporate instantly.

7: You know you can already repair your ships when docked, right?

8: This would be cool more in a sense of political events and being able to interact with the other factions. Just paying money for a regular trickle of goodwill points seems kinda.. you ever play Progress Quest? ;)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 12:00:20 AM by Schwartz »
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2794
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 11:40:32 PM »

5: I rather like the way AI cores work now. It's simple and effective. Compared to how useful cores are for colonies, having them as ship captains seems a waste when you can find officers everywhere. The idea to forgo a certain surplus in order to reduce overhead is interesting though.

It could be quite powerful if extra AI officers go over the cap. Like 10 bio + 10 AI officers.
Logged

Histidine

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4682
    • View Profile
    • GitHub profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 11:59:24 PM »

Some interesting ideas here

7: Repair Facilities.  Why do we have to fly around in space with a full crew in order to repair damaged ships?  Why not just drop them off in drydock and let your peons do the work for you?  Can rapidly heal regular damage (a lot easier to fix a car when it isn't, y'know, being driven at the time) and could also slowly remove major "orange bar" damage as well.  Also allows more efficient scrapping of ships, getting much more material out of them than when trying to do the same thing in space.
As Schwartz says, you can already instant repair when docked. To be competitive, this structure would need to repair for free (no supply cost).
This could also lead to players rotating out ships from storage while leaving battle-damaged ones in the shop for repairs, which sounds interesting.

Removing D-mods for free is pretty OP given the current credit cost of restoration, so if it's a thing it should only happen for ships the player has blueprints for (since in that case they can just order a new ship and use that anyway), and slowly (multiple months per D-mod for a cruiser wouldn't be too extreme).
Logged

Shad

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2018, 12:54:10 AM »

Some interesting ideas here

7: Repair Facilities.  Why do we have to fly around in space with a full crew in order to repair damaged ships?  Why not just drop them off in drydock and let your peons do the work for you?  Can rapidly heal regular damage (a lot easier to fix a car when it isn't, y'know, being driven at the time) and could also slowly remove major "orange bar" damage as well.  Also allows more efficient scrapping of ships, getting much more material out of them than when trying to do the same thing in space.
As Schwartz says, you can already instant repair when docked. To be competitive, this structure would need to repair for free (no supply cost).
This could also lead to players rotating out ships from storage while leaving battle-damaged ones in the shop for repairs, which sounds interesting.

Removing D-mods for free is pretty OP given the current credit cost of restoration, so if it's a thing it should only happen for ships the player has blueprints for (since in that case they can just order a new ship and use that anyway), and slowly (multiple months per D-mod for a cruiser wouldn't be too extreme).
Repair is trivialised in the game quite early on. A nearly destroyed ship can be 50% repaired for free instantly with the skill, and then it repairs to full in mere days. CR on some larger ships is a bit more time consuming, but even that's quite quick. Unless that's to change, all "repair"-based ideas will be redundant by the time a player has advanced past the very early game.

Removing D-mods could be tied to production quality, since construction is already. You place a damaged ship into a production queue pay the fee, and it comes out (after the appropriate time based on the cost of restoration) with as many D-mods as if it was produced at the planet. So 100% - fully restored, but if you only have 50% quality, it will not work with reducing D-mods below say 3. Penalty for restoring ships at non-owned/commission markets. This will also solve the semi-exploit of instantly restoring fleets at some size 3 pirate market. Cost and time could be reduced by having the blueprint for the ship.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 12:11:45 AM by Shad »
Logged

NephilimNexus

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2018, 03:52:06 PM »

You make good points about the repair thing.  In order to make it worthwhile as a facility then in-space repairs would have to be nerfed considerably, and I don't think everyone would like that.  It could still be handy for AI fleets, however, by giving them a call-function to return to port once whenever they go over a certain % of damage.  Ideally, I'd like that option added anyway, but only as an option.  Like a "hardcore mode" that people can take if they want to.

In another thread someone mentioned tying building limits to current population instead of a flat 12 for every planet from start to finish.  I endorse that idea, and I feel it would play into my suggestions perfectly.  If the number of slots was Pop+1 then a starting colony would only have room for a basic spaceport and a farm.  When slots become more scarce, or take longer to acquire, then specialization of colonies becomes more important and they become less of a free-cash machine.

Also, in order to expand/clarify some things, let's throw in...

11: More detailed trade controls. A series of check-boxes in a new Trade tab that shows how you want to move your resources around.  Each faction, including your own, would have an Import box and an Export box.  Trade between from your colonies to your own colonies would generate very little profit, but also would not cause the "stress" that causes other factions to be compelled to raid your planets.  Imports and Exports would only cause stress equal to the amount of trade imbalance that you're causing, while balanced trade could give a small relations boost.

So under the new Trade tab you'd see something like
Import Export Faction
  (x)       (x)   Your faction
  ( )       (x)   Hedgemony
  (x)       ( )   TriCorp
  ( )       ( )   Crazy Church
  (x)      (x)   Persians


Next, to emphasize what I intended by having AIs be pseudo-NPCs, we'd have to expand the skill lists - something which I assume to developer is probably planning on doing at some point, anyway.  With the player still capped at level 50 (which will only you let fill half the current skill list, let alone an expanded one) the need for specialist help would become even greater... and that's where the AIs would come to shine as things that can level up and gain skills.  I'd mention some skill ideas except that should be done under a different thread title.

Two new building types came to mind, too...

12: Storage Facility.  It has three times the resource stockpile limit expansion as the Waystation, but does nothing to increase accessibility.  Very simple.

13: Urban Center.  Small increase to accessibility, moderate boost to population growth, and lowers upkeep of all other facilities on the planet by 10% (centralization efficiency).

Also, some specializations based on role-playing angles...

14: Low-impact mining/industry  Good unions and ethical treatment of workers increases upkeep and lowers output by 25% (compared to a standard buildings) but doesn't require illegal drugs to keep your workers going, because you're not a monster.

15: High-impact mining/industry  Using slaves, convicts, the destitute or whatever floats your boat as expendable labor has 25% more output than a regular building and has 25% less upkeep costs, but shaves 2.5% off population growth and holds 500 marines in storage as guards per population point of the planet (these would be a one-time cost when built and again a planet moves up a population point).

16: Tourist Traps.  Generates revenue, increases accessibility, reduces "stress" with other factions (see above), but only consumes resources (food & luxury items) while producing nothing tangible in return (besides cash).

17: Honest Financial Center.  Increases a planet's net revenue by 5%.

18: Shady Financial Center.  Offshore money laundering works as above but gives 10% income, while reducing stability by 1 and increasing faction stress with everyone you actually trade with.

19: For those with "hardcore" mode turned on, Shipyards.  That's right, now more free fleets.  Those check boxes for AI fleet composition?  Completely gone.  If you want to build ships at a planet you'll need one of these built, first, and then make your fleets by hand (see first post).  On the upside, other factions would need them as well, and would thus be a prime raiding target to shut down their ability to build more ships.  Of course they'll do the same to you, too.

20: Gambling District.  Increases planet revenue and accessibility by 5% but lowers stability by 2 points.



Logged

RedHellion

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2018, 04:54:41 PM »

(Anything not mentioned, I don't have strong feelings about one way or the other)

1. I can get on board with this, though as Schwartz mentioned I feel like buildings and industry would need to be rebalanced to give diminishing returns with each duplicate. Otherwise if you found (for example) a world rich in rare and normal ore you could just stack mining bases and a waystation and instantly dominate the market and never worry about ore production again.

3. I love this, yes please.

5. I feel like this would essentially make Officers and Administrators useless, as it both gets around the salary requirement and the caps set by your skills. Maybe if in the future Alex implements AI rebellions and the chance for AI cores (especially Alpha cores) to go rogue: secede with your colony (or at least the military parts of it and blockade the planet until you clear them out) if set as an administrator, turn on you in battle if set as a ship captain (or turn part of your fleet against you, especially if multiple AI cores are captains), etc.

6. I mostly agree with Schwartz, especially late-game credits are almost meaningless and finding rare blueprints is the new economy. Dedicated research labs trivialize that, unless the cost was truly exorbitant as an end-game money sink, the process takes year(s), and the blueprint was entirely randomized. Also doesn't really make sense in lore unless the functionality was enabled by finding some crazy encrypted blueprint stash at the end of the storyline that's like a technological "ark" the player can try to crack.

8. Interesting, and could tie in with more advanced faction diplomacy *cough* lay off the expeditions *cough* eventually once Alex keeps fleshing out the faction gameplay.

10. ... fellow fan of MechWarrior, are we? Interesting idea, though I think it would make for more interesting gameplay decisions if the 3 bonuses took separate slots - or if you built the base building, and then had to upgrade it into 1 of the 3 so you could only have 1.

19. Would this interact with Patrol HQ / Military Base somehow (maybe they still modify fleet size and fleet operation scope, and/or how many fleets the colony can manage in total while colony size controls maybe the maximum number of hulls in fleets, and/or what standing orders you can give the fleets you create when you create them), or would this essentially replace them?

I'm also part of the crowd endorsing building limits being tied to colony size, though I think Spaceports shouldn't take a slot because they're pretty ubiquitous for a colony to be able to exist in the first place (e.g. size 3 starting colony would be able to have a Spaceport, Mining industry, Patrol HQ, and Ground Defenses). Also that upgrading an industry (e.g. Heavy Industry -> Orbital Works) should make it take up an extra slot.
Logged

Darloth

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2018, 01:27:47 AM »

For point 1., perhaps something like you can choose a single specialization for a world, and then it takes up a whole vertical slice (three slots) for producing only +1 more than the normal industry would?
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12157
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 05:37:46 AM »

For point 1., perhaps something like you can choose a single specialization for a world, and then it takes up a whole vertical slice (three slots) for producing only +1 more than the normal industry would?
That would put less incentive on self-sufficient colony, and probably encourage more specialist colonies.  In my game, I have a gas giant colony that produces only volatiles, and that would be a total no-brainer.

I like the idea of a self-sufficient colony, but I have the feeling that multiple specialist colonies are the way to go for maximum profit.
Logged

TrashMan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2018, 11:50:54 AM »

Speaking of repairs, if there's one thing I would change is that ships CANNOT be repaired to 100% in space, without a repairs ships. Only at stations/yards.

You could repair them to 80-90%, but not more. It makes sense after all. No ships that gets damaged repairs itself fully at sea.
Logged

Darloth

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2018, 01:53:46 PM »

Space is quite unlike the sea, though.

It might make sense not to be able to fully repair in hyperspace or (at a push - no fun, but realistic) not when moving around a system, but considering these ships are constructed in low orbit, if you have enough time, crew and supplies, ANY low orbit should be fine to sit in and repair the ship.

You may contest: But what about the heavy machinery and welding huge big pieces of hull plating back together?  Well... I'm carrying the heavy machinery with me, and let me tell you about that time I blew up a cruiser so hard it broke into five segments and then we stapled THOSE back together into a flyable vessel in under a day :)
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12157
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2018, 02:02:11 PM »

Speaking of repairs, if there's one thing I would change is that ships CANNOT be repaired to 100% in space, without a repairs ships. Only at stations/yards.

You could repair them to 80-90%, but not more. It makes sense after all. No ships that gets damaged repairs itself fully at sea.
That is what (D) mods and "Restore" at a station is for.

Of course, now that ships tend to be manufactured with a (D) mod or two, that is not the nice and clean explanation it used to be.
Logged

RedHellion

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2018, 02:06:17 PM »

It might make sense not to be able to fully repair in hyperspace or (at a push - no fun, but realistic) not when moving around a system, but considering these ships are constructed in low orbit, if you have enough time, crew and supplies, ANY low orbit should be fine to sit in and repair the ship.

You may contest: But what about the heavy machinery and welding huge big pieces of hull plating back together?  Well... I'm carrying the heavy machinery with me, and let me tell you about that time I blew up a cruiser so hard it broke into five segments and then we stapled THOSE back together into a flyable vessel in under a day :)

Not to mention, being able to not only fully repair a defunct satellite while in deep space but also construct entirely new makeshift satellites from scratch in deep space.
Logged

TrashMan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2018, 03:44:36 PM »

Space is quite unlike the sea, though.

It might make sense not to be able to fully repair in hyperspace or (at a push - no fun, but realistic) not when moving around a system, but considering these ships are constructed in low orbit, if you have enough time, crew and supplies, ANY low orbit should be fine to sit in and repair the ship.

Ships are construced in shipyards, not in open space.

Find me a modern miliary warship that if full repaired outside of drydock. I dare you.


Quote
You may contest: But what about the heavy machinery and welding huge big pieces of hull plating back together?  Well... I'm carrying the heavy machinery with me, and let me tell you about that time I blew up a cruiser so hard it broke into five segments and then we stapled THOSE back together into a flyable vessel in under a day :)

That's a problem with skills and visuals. The ship shouldn't break up, but the game doesn't take into effect the skill that guarantees it will be recoverable, since it apparently rolls chances after the battle, and thus still breaks it apart on a roll during it.
Logged

Baro

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: 10 colony mechanic overhaul ideas.
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2018, 04:57:36 PM »

I'd kill for some sort of lab that's no necessarily inventing new technology but represents scientists and experts who know where and how to hunt for blueprints.  In the late game all I do is roam system to system searching for blueprints, it's the only grind left and I still don't have half the ships I'd like.  Been searching the whole game for a medusa...
Logged
Pages: [1] 2