Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic: Colonization and possible ways to improve it  (Read 14234 times)

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 5817
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2018, 01:33:08 PM »

Well it depends how you want to roleplay it. My first game I maxed all the colony skills but ended when I only had 4 colonies (1 a not very profitable tech mine and another a good planet just colonized, so size 3). The two main ones alone were giving me ludicrous ~900k/month income. Honestly I think a single, good, planet is enough to 'beat' the game in terms of money - so you could either use an alpha core or just an admin with 2 skills (because ground defense skill is not needed).

That said, it is fun building a super space empire! :D
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 9585
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2018, 01:44:03 PM »

I have an annoying problem.  One of the systems up north near my main colony has three good to great places to colonize.  A class V motherload with vast ruins (similar to my primary colony), a class IV with good if not ludicrous resources, and a class III gas giant that would solve my Volatiles deficiency in my main colony.  A problem?  No comm relay for easy news.

To the east, there is a nice high class 100% Terran planet with rich farmland and one other useful resource.  I want to explore more of the sector before I establish another permanent mega-colony.

However, I should plop a temporary colony down on the planets with ruins for more blueprint mining, if nothing else.
Logged

Algro

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2018, 03:36:52 PM »

However, I should plop a temporary colony down on the planets with ruins for more blueprint mining, if nothing else.

Did I see this right, you can get blueprints by colonizing planets with ruins? I thought ruins give blueprints only once after the survey.
Logged

tinsoldier

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2018, 04:11:14 PM »

Did I see this right, you can get blueprints by colonizing planets with ruins? I thought ruins give blueprints only once after the survey.

There is a "Tech Mining" structure that you can build to scavenge materials out of the ruins. It can also randomly find blueprints and items. It has diminishing returns as the ruins are cleared out.
Logged

Baro

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2018, 08:25:37 PM »

I wish there was a way to make a "colony" that was nothing more than a supply camp or quick tech mine that didn't cut into your managed planet's cap.
Logged

Null Ganymede

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2018, 09:51:13 PM »

Colony skills are basically a difficulty setting.

Increased supply/decreased demand avoid the resource requirement mini-game. 30% more income, if applied before upkeep costs, is way more than 30%. Accessibility mitigates distance and +2 stability maximizes income despite events or greedy building selection.

That's a total of 12 skill points from 2 branches. Well, more like 9 - Fleet Logistics is extremely good for non-colony reasons. You can delay leveling Colony Management too, so that's an extra ~6 points you're spending early on to completely solve credit problems. You do need to level industry, but if you're using low-tech ships or salvaging it's really useful.
Logged

Draba

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2018, 01:10:39 AM »

Honestly I think a single, good, planet is enough to 'beat' the game in terms of money - so you could either use an alpha core or just an admin with 2 skills (because ground defense skill is not needed).

That said, it is fun building a super space empire! :D

Yep, 1 planet is all you need.
Destroyed everything on my other planets and the main one now gives 1.4M/month + 260K industrial capacity.
~30% global marketshare in everything, fuel ~50%.

For single colony hazard doesn't really matter, location/preferably water/farm + 2 ores + organics(or maybe volatiles) are what you are after.
Size of resource deposits doesn't matter that much, market size + core + skill are where the bulk comes from. Just have as many different types as possible.
+-100K running cost is dwarfed by the income and even a ridiculous 20 hazard growth modifier won't make a difference when you have free port and hundreds from growth incentives(turn them off at max size).
Ruins don't scale well with size and are probably just a money drain, you will want heavy industry/refining/fuel anyway.

If you go that route you don't need any colony skills, just 1 warm body with industrial planning. +2 stability is good early, +30% accessibility late.
Or you throw a not-so-warm body at the problem and get everything for free.
You still get 2 extra refueling stations/production boosts and can entirely drop industry(only other reason I have it is the 50% special salvage boost).
~12-15 extra points for combat skills, main downside are obviously lower colony count and a much slower economic start if you don't want to cheese the bar mission early.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:36:18 AM by Draba »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 9585
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2018, 04:28:41 AM »

My colony just grew to size 6, and now my income has dropped (from about 190k+ to about 150k), probably either because my Volatiles demand increased (more imports) or the miners are not getting enough drugs!  My colony now has a global shortage of drugs.  No one else in the sector can keep up with demand (they top at 3 or 4).  Income will likely drop further once I upgrade battlestation to star fortress.

So far, I only see two ways to solve the drug shortage, install beta core (which will not work anymore if my colony grows to size 7) or turn on Free Port.  I noticed if I enable Free Port, my income will more than double.  (I do not want to rely on it because I want to have maximum colonies later.)

BUG:  Also found a bug where if I enable Free Port then disable it immediately without changing the screen, my production remains at 5 because there is a "+1 null".
Logged

Draba

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2018, 04:59:17 AM »

My colony just grew to size 6, and now my income has dropped (from about 190k+ to about 150k), probably either because my Volatiles demand increased (more imports) or the miners are not getting enough drugs!  My colony now has a global shortage of drugs.  No one else in the sector can keep up with demand (they top at 3 or 4).  Income will likely drop further once I upgrade battlestation to star fortress.

So far, I only see two ways to solve the drug shortage, install beta core (which will not work anymore if my colony grows to size 7) or turn on Free Port.  I noticed if I enable Free Port, my income will more than double.  (I do not want to rely on it because I want to have maximum colonies later.)

BUG:  Also found a bug where if I enable Free Port then disable it immediately without changing the screen, my production remains at 5 because there is a "+1 null".


One of the outputs of light industry are drugs, in higher quantities than what the colony center produces.
Free port = drug+organ market share = huge piles of money, paired with the growth+access you really want it.
Stability comes from upgrading space stations/patrol HQs, or ground defenses if that's your thing.
They double as protection from the raids free port attracts.

I think output of most industries for each of their products is just MARKET_SIZE + modifiers, but there are some exceptions(tech mine, IIRC fuel) that I noticed.
Didn't dive the code so take it with 2 grains of salt.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 05:06:40 AM by Draba »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 9585
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2018, 05:43:21 AM »

I already have light industry.  I already produce enough drugs if I enable Free Port (which becomes five instead of four).  I try to keep a squeaky-clean colony, especially if I want to build extra colony elsewhere later.  However, more than double income is tempting.

I also have a military base, and upgrading it to High Command just means more upkeep for slightly better ground defenses (which I do not need yet).

Now that colony is size 6, tech mining is superfluous and will go away soon (ruins are about depleted anyway), and I have the option of Commerce (handy to dump my excess vendor trash), Ground Defenses (+2 stabilty from Heavy Batteries means one more colony I can build elsewhere), or nothing (less upkeep).
Logged

Null Ganymede

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2018, 06:13:54 AM »

Heavy Batteries don't add extra stability over ground defense. High Command doesn't have stated bonuses, but does look like it spawns more fleets to chase pirates and protect the wormhole route.

Not using colony skills is, uh, interesting. It's definitely challenging and you have to watch that demand is fulfilled. Getting to the stage where it's a safe passive source of credits is a lot harder and feels more balanced.
Logged

Draba

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2018, 06:46:09 AM »

I try to keep a squeaky-clean colony, especially if I want to build extra colony elsewhere later.  However, more than double income is tempting.

Dunno about that, factions will still attack you for market share/giggles and they are just an annoyance defenses deal with anyway(throw money at the hegemony or ninja their fleet).
Goal may be to make cores/free market meaningful choices but right now I don't think they are. Too easy to swim in money once you know what to prioritize.
Granted, free market might not be worth it very early before you have stability bonuses. Still great for growth if you can't afford incentives.

Heavy Batteries don't add extra stability over ground defense. High Command doesn't have stated bonuses, but does look like it spawns more fleets to chase pirates and protect the wormhole route.

Not using colony skills is, uh, interesting. It's definitely challenging and you have to watch that demand is fulfilled. Getting to the stage where it's a safe passive source of credits is a lot harder and feels more balanced.

I've written that stability comes from:
- upgrading space station(to battle station/whatever level 2 is called)
- upgrading patrol HQ(to military base/whatever level 2 is called)
- ground defenses
Same difference :)
Not sure though, can't check exact numbers so correct them if I remember wrong.

Not using colony skills just means you need to check every comm for an admin with industrial planning or get a core.
Can be a bit slower than just being ready by the time you have the money to get the colony, but not that much IMO.
Logged

Sarissofoi

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2018, 07:21:55 AM »

I agree.
Its too easy to grab markets shares with decent planet.
And as I notice most of the planets in core lose money - they don't have administrators and barely any sufficiency.
It would be cool to setup some small hideout or mini-bases instead of full colony but its just me.
Heck even some limited mining operations would be nice.
Full colony should be a really big stuff.
Currently I wonder why none of the factions send colonization fleets - its just that easy.

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 9585
    • View Profile
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2018, 07:24:37 AM »

In my first game, it was get colony skills or die, as I had neither skilled admins or cores to use by the time colony would lose money and sink.

It is not so much factions attacking me (they do that already), but I do not want gotcha stuff like unwanted market conditions, if they can be acquired.  (I do not want stuff like Luddic Majority or Organized Crime.)

I have three adminstrators now, but they are not as good as my character, but at least they can be useful for footholds elsewhere.  After a smash another pirate base, I probably will plop two or three colonies down, provided I do not get another annoying invasion or Pather base alert.

Now that my fleet and station is strong enough for endgame (but not strong enough to raid major factions for blueprints), most annoying thing in the game now are Pather cells.  I wish that Pather cell condition would go away.  All I can seem to do is make it sleep after a break a Pather base if I can find the stupid bugs.
Logged

dirtnap

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2018, 08:48:52 AM »

You can always edit the settings.json file (i use notepad++) to lower luddic path stuff. it's not too difficult but that's me, i'll gladly change around settings to keep the game less annoying.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4