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Author Topic: Colonization and possible ways to improve it  (Read 18745 times)

Megas

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2018, 09:14:10 AM »

I know full well of the json file.  I do not want to cheat like that.  (If I did, I would give my character something big and powerful like unlimited money, skills, and blueprints instead of something trivial like removing Pather cells or permanently squelching objectives.)  The closest I do is set game speed to 2f because the game is unbearably too slow-paced otherwise.
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Sutopia

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2018, 11:43:40 AM »

In my first game, it was get colony skills or die, as I had neither skilled admins or cores to use by the time colony would lose money and sink.

It is not so much factions attacking me (they do that already), but I do not want gotcha stuff like unwanted market conditions, if they can be acquired.  (I do not want stuff like Luddic Majority or Organized Crime.)

I have three adminstrators now, but they are not as good as my character, but at least they can be useful for footholds elsewhere.  After a smash another pirate base, I probably will plop two or three colonies down, provided I do not get another annoying invasion or Pather base alert.

Now that my fleet and station is strong enough for endgame (but not strong enough to raid major factions for blueprints), most annoying thing in the game now are Pather cells.  I wish that Pather cell condition would go away.  All I can seem to do is make it sleep after a break a Pather base if I can find the stupid bugs.


Simply by not using any AI cores and develope less industries will actually make cells auto dissolve.
I got one colony seemingly on the boundary condition: introducing Houston from faction Payday.

For this degree of industries, the path cell spawns frequently then auto-dissolve after about half a month thus never post any actual threat to this colony. I believe this is the extreme tight bound for not getting bothered by pathers. If you use any Beta+ cores, however, you WILL get frequent harass from them.
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Since all my mods have poor reputation, I deem my efforts unworthy thus no more updates will be made.

Megas

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2018, 01:19:41 PM »

Okay, so if my colony builds up too much, Pathers go all eco-terrorist and I need to deal with those parasites every now and then.  Bleh!  They are a pain because their bases are either hidden and/or far away, and their penalties to my colony stats and possible disruption means I cannot ignore them.  At least I can ignore pirates to some extent, and they are a bit easier to flush out.

Update on my first game:  I smashed the pirate bases, only to have two factions send invasion fleets (which my star fortress and fleets can probably kill without my help) and - more annoyingly - another Pather base I need to destroy before the cells wake up again.  It is about time they go away so I can work on building more colonies.
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jakartablessed

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2018, 03:10:44 PM »

I rather like the intrigue implied by the whole Pather Cells system. Pathers do target my colony(s) but so far my colonization efforts have been just one among many targets, so I can pretty safely gamble on gaining market share from, say, Sindria getting its fuel industry disrupted while my own fuel production chugs along. Or I can just take out the one base targeting my colony and enjoy the benefits of the rest of the sector being disrupted by cells supported by the other stations.


One thing I was hoping for with the colonization system coming in was having it be more hands-on. Like buying and shipping in a bunch of metals if I want to build a battleship. I'm also interested the ability to just build space stations out in asteroid belts or wherever as a sort of personal fortress/storage area, like how I use the station around Chupi Orco but with the potential to be more like Kanta's Den.
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Megas

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2018, 04:53:25 AM »

Update:  Plopped down two more colonies, one at a gas giant for volatiles and another at a Terran-eccentric as a waystation to explore more fringe systems (although it has some resources to serve as a secondary colony).  I discovered some more quirks:

* More colonies will lower the income of your first colony if you try to make your new colonies self-sufficient.  No doubt due to how economy works.  This might be a shock for those who do not think about the economy much.

* With multiple colony skills maxed, unskilled or one-skilled administrators are not useful yet.  My income is lower, lower than if I stuck with one colony.

* The loss stability means turning on Free Port will no longer double my primary colony's income.

So far, increasing colony max is more useful for the management/stability bonus so that colony can have Free Port and still have 10 stability for massive profit (from illegals), and only the player with max colony skills (or alpha core) can do that.  Additional colonies seem most useful for mining resources your primary colony cannot produce, waystation as a convenient place to resupply your fleet, or tech mining for blueprints and other rare items.  That said, Planetary Operations 3 for +2 stability is very tempting just so I can plop down another waystation or tech mine elsewhere without biting into income, although I guess better raids will be nice once I decide to do magic-find runs at faction worlds for blueprints later.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 04:55:55 AM by Megas »
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TaLaR

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2018, 05:09:50 AM »

So far, increasing colony max is more useful for the management/stability bonus so that colony can have Free Port and still have 10 stability for massive profit (from illegals), and only the player with max colony skills (or alpha core) can do that.

Nope, you just need to do pather/pirate gardening. No skills can maintain 10 stability with freeport.

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Draba

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2018, 06:12:58 AM »

So far, increasing colony max is more useful for the management/stability bonus so that colony can have Free Port and still have 10 stability for massive profit (from illegals), and only the player with max colony skills (or alpha core) can do that.

Nope, you just need to do pather/pirate gardening. No skills can maintain 10 stability with freeport.

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Yep, and I think ludd penalty only goes to -3, definitely don't quote me on that though.
Didn't see max sized colonies with domain-era comms dip below 10 even when leaving them alone for years.
Pirates do also reduce accessibility and there could be events I didn't see yet.
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Megas

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2018, 06:28:09 AM »

@ TaLaR:  Your colony does not have Decivilized for permanent -2.  Mine does.  All of the best planets I found so far have Decivilized, except maybe the one I just found with a 100% hazard Terran eccentric without the Decivilized, but it is missing rare ore and maybe another resource.  (It is used as a waypoint or launchpad world, and as possible backup.)  Also, I need another colony that produces Volatiles, and since my character is better than hired administrators, I need to run it.

Also, I want to be able to plop down temporary colonies, and if I have skills, I need to run them myself or lose income.

P.S.  The system that has my Volatiles colony also has a class IV and V (with Vast Ruins and Decivilized) similar to my primary colony, but the system is missing relays.  More precisely, I need to destroy a Domina Nav relay and replace it with makeshift comm relay, if I do not want to suffer a permanent -1 to stability due to no comm relay.  (More like -2 since makeshift comm relay gives +1, and none gives -1.  Plus, I like checking for new bounties or market share, and I cannot do that without comm relay.)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 06:47:36 AM by Megas »
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Argonaut

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2018, 11:01:20 AM »

I agree.
Its too easy to grab markets shares with decent planet.
And as I notice most of the planets in core lose money - they don't have administrators and barely any sufficiency.
It would be cool to setup some small hideout or mini-bases instead of full colony but its just me.
Heck even some limited mining operations would be nice.
Full colony should be a really big stuff.
Currently I wonder why none of the factions send colonization fleets - its just that easy.


Exactly what i think. The economy is too easy. Where the colony is placed in the sector should matter more. If early colonization is to be a thing, we should be able to build outposts with 1 or two building spaces. A solution could be tiered colonization: 100k initial investment for building slot. A 1-3 slot "colony" would be an outpost that can be built even in empty space, with mining possible in an asteroid belt, while a full colony would require a much higher initial investment and only on habitable planets.
On the economy side, an outpost with only a refinery and a spaceport should get market share only if the nearby economies are disrupted, with the player then spawning more outpost or a full colony in this new strategic location, to capitalize on the chance. Most colonies/outposts shouldn't make profit easily without player intervention or very strategical positioning.
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Colonization and possible ways to improve it
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2018, 12:42:15 AM »

I don't know if adding credit sinks before the colony takes off is the solution. Right now the problem is a lack of real choice.

The main choices available are AI cores (do you want Hegemony + Luddic bases all up in your grill?) and whether to invest in skills (do you want a massive monthly income at the cost of ~6 points and some credit sinks, or a slight challenge and strict hazard limit?) Other choices are one-sided:

  • Avoiding industrialization to avoid Luddites entirely isn't worth it, and efficient colony design tries to avoid overlapping resource production and ends up spreading industry out anyways.
  • The benefits of a freeport are easily worth a few extra missions. Maybe if freeports weren't compatible with a High Command due to system security chasing off all the colorful smuggler types, and required some creativity to defend as a result... Or if they weren't compatible with heavy industry due to Luddic terrorists having guaranteed supply lines, so freeports would only be viable on light industry drug-planets... But you just set it up and bam, instant market share dominance / backwater compensation.
  • The number of buildings isn't limited enough to make you pick and choose much. The close-to-optimal set of buildings tends to be obvious.

The supply game in particular doesn't seem challenging, even at mid-high population counts. Even without leveling skills I haven't run into scenarios where I'm setting up a suboptimal mining/refining base to feed some critical need on a homeworld that's grown too large.

It's likely that as more buildings/events/choices get added, all these problems will vanish. If not, there's probably room for an economy mod that introduces more interesting supply chains. ;)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 03:55:37 AM by Null Ganymede »
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