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Author Topic: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks  (Read 2988 times)

coldfire142

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Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« on: November 18, 2018, 09:18:52 PM »

My colony is making me lose more money then I gain per month. Dose any one have any tips and tricks they would like to share in economical build plans and strats to colony management.
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Thaago

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2018, 09:37:31 PM »

The number one thing: what is the hazard rating of the planet? The maintenance cost of all facilities is multiplied by the rating - even rich worlds can be totally not worth it to colonize if their rating is too high.

After that: try turning on "free port". This will vastly improve accessibility and allow you to sell drugs/weapons. However several faction will target you for exporting drugs/weapons...

You can hover over income and press F1 to get more info about what specific industries are giving you/costing. You can also check in the 'income' tab of your empire management, though the numbers are different between the two and I don't know which is correct.
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Baro

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2018, 09:38:06 PM »

Colony management at this point is a bit odd and non-intuitive but here's a 101 from my experiences:

The top most important thing to really look at is hazard rating,  hazard ratings multiply the upkeep of your buildings.  That mine that will make you 8k seems like a good investment when it costs 5k investment,  but on a 200% planet that would be a 10k upkeep, so a money-loser.  But, if that planet has ultra-rich ore and rare, maybe that mine would be worth building after all.

You need to find your self a 100% hazard or lower planet to be your main colony, your home world.  This will be the planet you really build up because you aren't being killed by upkeep penalties.  Sometimes high upkeep planets can be worth building on because they have some super rich deposits of stuff, but even then, it will only be worth keeping that planet as a small resource operation, never building factories and such on it.  Planets actually worth colonizing are quite rare.  I surveyed about 30 systems before finding a single terran planet that also had respectable resources.  Make a note of the survey quality when you survey a planet,  the game is pretty good at valuing planets so that class V is going to be worth colonizing,  the class IV maybe worth colonizing, and anything below class III I wouldn't look at outside of extreme situations.

Money pits are the result of high upkeep from hazard rating vs low resource production.  Of course the game doesn't really tell you how much money something is going to make, only how much the upkeep will be.  Sometimes you need to do some trial and error.  But mouse over your income on your planets and see the breakdown.  And don't forget defensive buildings, starbases, patrol bases, way stations,  they all cost upkeep but don't make you money.  Choose carefully what to build.
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Draba

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 04:55:42 AM »

Skills help a lot(duh :) ):
  • Industry: 3 points in the last one(-1 resource req, +1 resource output, flat 30% extra income) is very strong.
  • Leadership: can get 30% extra accessibility/2 stability, but starting out industry is the big one.

IMO lvl 50 is plenty to max out the relevant parts from industry/tech/leadership, not losing anything.

Beyond that, colonies are pretty closely tied to exploration:
  • Look for AI cores. Weakest ones are common enough and give nice early boosts but betas are where things get really interesting(-50% upkeep in industries is a LOT).
    Alphas are obviously even better but beta is the big step up and relatively easy to get.
  • Look for big ruins, tech mines are very cheap to build/maintain and give ridiculous amounts of money.
    Also gives some bonus items, from the tech mine tooltip looks like only this bonus gets reduced over time but not sure.
    My 2 year old tech mines still go at max so definitely good enough to kickstart income.

Hazard really isn't that important as AI cores cut upkeep in half and even 250%/star fortress/max patrol will come out as ~150-300K profit/month in the end(size 5, didn't get bigger yet).
What you want is lots of different resources available as each one gets boosted by 1+1 from skills+AI.
In order of importance:
  • Big ruins, tech mines are really friggin great
  • Water world, aqua farming is great
  • Different kinds of other resources, usually ores+rare ores and maybe volatiles
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 05:04:21 AM by Draba »
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Tartiflette

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2018, 05:03:16 AM »

Stability is also a pretty big deal: a decent mid-game colony can output 200k at 8 stability, and loose 100k at 4.
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Megas

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2018, 05:23:51 AM »

The number one thing: what is the hazard rating of the planet? The maintenance cost of all facilities is multiplied by the rating - even rich worlds can be totally not worth it to colonize if their rating is too high.
I am finding this out the hard way.  My super-rich colony that is close to core worlds has 175% rating, and I need the management bonus to keep the colony out of the red.  It is on the verge of becoming size 4 (and it might bump up expenses) so it is almost too late to abandon.  I will probably take some of the Industry skills to raise administrators and colony limit, and stuff that Industrial planning does, but I have a feeling that is a temporary band-aid.

I so want to spend my 600k on a new colony and stuff, but if I do that, I probably go into crushing debt the moment something sneezes on my primary colony.

I might restart the game (and take the Hammerhead start).  I am not looking forward to doing that.

Probably should hold off on colony building in early-game, then do it when I can smash stuff easily.
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Draba

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2018, 05:39:06 AM »

I will probably take some of the Industry skills to raise administrators and colony limit, and stuff that Industrial planning does, but I have a feeling that is a temporary band-aid.
...
Probably should hold off on colony building in early-game, then do it when I can smash stuff easily.

Yep, I also found out the hard way that colonies are really expensive when you aren't strong enough so smash task forces.
Luckily that threshold seems to be really low, lvl 1 orbital base + patrol HQ repelled most things by themselves.

On the second part, alpha core governors are REALLY good at making colonies bring in money without you investing skills.
Dunno if the AI uprising part Alex talked about is in though.
Spoiler
Seems like distraught person waving around a tripod is a common bar quest, I think that always leads to a guaranteed alpha core.
Fight seems to scale somehow as I took it twice and it was a match to my very different fleets both times.
[close]
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 05:41:04 AM by Draba »
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Elijah

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2018, 05:51:32 AM »


Luckily that threshold seems to be really low, lvl 1 orbital base + patrol HQ repelled most things by themselves.


I think task forces get stronger as time pass by, so it could be that eventually you need to update the orbital base / patrol HQ building to manage them.

Actually, in regards to the Patrol HQ building, did you manage to figure out the differences between the lowest one to the highest level one?
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Megas

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2018, 06:14:38 AM »

After reading the rules.json and The_Soldier's spoiler, alphas are as I suspected (sealed demons in cans), and I want nothing to do with them (yet).  If I use one too long, I choose between rogue core condition or Hegemony cleansing.  I am not ready for (or want to deal with) that kind of headache.

Maybe gamma and beta cores are not so obnoxious.  (Will those risk bad behavior at attempted disconnection and removal?)  I guess Hegemony will look for them, but I can just disconnect and hide them elsewhere, I guess.  Then again, I do not want another alert that my colonies are burning and stop whatever exploration or bounty hunting I want to do.

@ Draba:  I already did the alpha core bar mission, and gave up the core as agreed.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:18:12 AM by Megas »
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Draba

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2018, 08:12:03 AM »

Spoilers ahead!

Actually, in regards to the Patrol HQ building, did you manage to figure out the differences between the lowest one to the highest level one?

Dunno about the exact mechanics, IIRC the tooltips said level 1/2/3 are 100/110/120% patrol strength.
Don't quote me, no clue how patrols work and what strength actually means here.

I guess Hegemony will look for them, but I can just disconnect and hide them elsewhere, I guess.

I was feeling smart and tried that, they trash the place and take a massive dump in the middle of the living room :)
Same as a raid but disables ALL infrastructure and tanks stability, -20 standing with Hegemony on top. Killing them without transponder is -3.
On the plus side cores in infrastructure bring in so much money the occasional 100K in bribes is pocket change.

After reading the rules.json and The_Soldier's spoiler, alphas are as I suspected (sealed demons in cans), and I want nothing to do with them (yet).  If I use one too long, I choose between rogue core condition or Hegemony cleansing.  I am not ready for (or want to deal with) that kind of headache.

Maybe gamma and beta cores are not so obnoxious.  (Will those risk bad behavior at attempted disconnection and removal?)  I guess Hegemony will look for them, but I can just disconnect and hide them elsewhere, I guess.  Then again, I do not want another alert that my colonies are burning and stop whatever exploration or bounty hunting I want to do.

Gamma/beta can't be governors, by the time I got my first alpha I already had most of the skills so didn't had it long enough to see the event.
I think I saw rogue AI just means it can't be removed, if that's it it isn't much of a penalty(alpha AI is the perfect admin).
Would wait a bit until there's definite info, but you can possibly dump a ton of industry skills and get combat ones instead.
I just got industry anyway and fly around in battles sniping with HIL Sunder, but getting the best of everything does seem possible for munchkining :)
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Megas

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2018, 08:33:53 AM »

@ Draha:  Cores and Hegemony
Spoiler
Quote
I was feeling smart and tried that, they trash the place and take a massive dump in the middle of the living room
That sounds like a way to conveniently remove a colony I do not want anymore but cannot abandon for some reason.  My primary colony has not built up that far yet, only enough that I cannot abandon it (but still small enough for sat bombing to obliterate).

I would not use the lesser cores as governors, but to buff markets like other items do.  I suppose Hegemony might inspect such a colony too if I use them for that purpose.

I wonder if Alpha cores will try to refuse removal if plugged into a market instead of an administrator.  (If I plug in Alpha for one market instead of for the whole colony.)

Quote
I think I saw rogue AI just means it can't be removed, if that's it it isn't much of a penalty(alpha AI is the perfect admin).
I think alpha AI goes rogue if you remove the core.  You do not get the core back, but you can use another administrator.

If I want to deal with Hegemony, then sure, alpha cores would be fine.  I am not ready to have Hegemony be a thorn-in-my-side yet, especially since they are handy neighbors to help bootstrap my colony.  (I take frequent trips to their easternmost system to get supplies and fuel, my colonies do not produce enough.)
[close]

Because I made some uninformed decisions, and my military is not ready for endgame battle, it will probably be get Industry skills or die-and-restart.  I do not have any Alpha cores, but I have a single Beta, and plugging it into a market is tempting.  Tech-mining is an option, but if Diktat sends endgame fleets to raid my markets (and they will), my fleet will not be strong enough to stop them.
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Draba

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2018, 09:04:31 AM »

Spoiler
...
I would not use the lesser cores as governors, but to buff markets like other items do.  I suppose Hegemony might inspect such a colony too if I use them for that purpose.
...
I wonder if Alpha cores will try to refuse removal if plugged into a market instead of an administrator.  (If I plug in Alpha for one market instead of for the whole colony.)
...
I think alpha AI goes rogue if you remove the core.  You do not get the core back, but you can use another administrator.

If I want to deal with Hegemony, then sure, alpha cores would be fine.  I am not ready to have Hegemony be a thorn-in-my-side yet, especially since they are handy neighbors to help bootstrap my colony.  (I take frequent trips to their easternmost system to get supplies and fuel, my colonies do not produce enough.)
[close]
Because I made some uninformed decisions, and my military is not ready for endgame battle, it will probably be get Industry skills or die-and-restart.  I do not have any Alpha cores, but I have a single Beta, and plugging it into a market is tempting.  Tech-mining is an option, but if Diktat sends endgame fleets to raid my markets (and they will), my fleet will not be strong enough to stop them.

Kinda getting lost in the spoilers.
Something like Dwarf Fortress's HFS, everybody knows what it is but better safe than why not :)
Spoiler
Yes, I was only using AI in infrastructure and got a Hegemony inspection, they hate that too.
...
Don't think alpha refuses getting taken out from infrastructure, got guite a few in heavy industry for over 2 years and they didn't mind reshuffling.
...
If alpha only refuses removal and attracts Hegemony inspections it's great, if it forces full scales Hegemony assaults it's not so great :)
Will plug one in a new colony and see what happens.
[close]

Alpha's are very nice but the 50% maintenance reduction is the best part in my book, betas aren't too far behind for most things.
I rolled a mixed galaxy and surveyed 50+ planets around the core worlds, only seen 1 planet with 125% hazard and none below.
That discount means a ton on heavy industry, fuel production and the other expensive things.
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Draba

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2018, 02:38:24 AM »

Correction to my earlier post:
  • Hazard rating is very important early on if you do not have any beta cores
  • Not important with betas/alphas in midgame or with low colony count
  • Important again later if you want lots of colonies as
    1. Your big free ports with 200%+ accessibility dominate the global market and mostly compete against each other, best way to maximize profit is to minimize cost
    2. Big colonies rake in the money from trading drugs/harvested organs, each 25% hazard rating is a -2 growth modifier.
    In the modifier list that doesn't look too high(free port +25 for example) but dunno how it translates to growth%.

Based on my current understanding having fewer colonies doesn't seem that big a hit, for example getting 80% of the fuel market with 3 synced refineries is probably better than 90%+ with 7.
Once you have decent sources for every base resource(food, ore, rare ore, volatiles, organics) you are set.
One thing I won't budge on is my 7 orbital works with pristine nanoforges, spitting out complete doomfleets every month feels the right kind of evil villainy.
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TaLaR

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2018, 02:44:26 AM »

Based on my current understanding having fewer colonies doesn't seem that big a hit, for example getting 80% of the fuel market with 3 synced refineries is probably better than 90%+ with 7.

Not necessarily, your 7 colonies also increase market cap by their consumption.
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Colony hemorrhaging money, Need tips and tricks
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2018, 02:48:30 AM »

You can't grow the fuel/food/drug markets yourself. You might be able to grow metal/transplutonic markets enough to offset growing marginal costs.
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