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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.9.11 [12/20/21]  (Read 385529 times)

Taverius

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2019, 07:00:53 AM »

Oh and W.R.T. feedback. I love flying against them, but hate flying them.

Inefficient low-tech shields, but with flux-hungry high-tech loadouts, and really tight op - they feel weak.

Might just be that I don't mesh with how they're supposed to be flown, but with the shields at 1.0 damage/flux across the board I don't want to get hit on it, so I want range, and that means a whole lot of flux I can't afford, I've never really found a loadout I was happy with.
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battle_sausage

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #166 on: August 27, 2019, 05:30:49 PM »

Hi, nice mod. Like the guns but I've got aquestion, is the pellet gun bugged? On paper it doesnt seem all that supergood but looking at the analytics it outperforms tachyon lances when it comes to total damage and (counting soft flux damage as worth half) is about 4 times better then the hypervelocity driver despite having an OP cost difference of 1.  Btw what file would I need to edit in the mod folder to change the OP cost of the pelletgun? (or it's other stats).  This was for a battle against a huge hegemoney fleet (lots and lots of armour) where the Pellets (together with the hyper velocity drivers) where on autofire as I controlled the tachyons.

Had to crop the picture because of file size limits.
(yeah I know I need to replace the Gale batteries with something but finding the right source of high explosive damage has been a bit of a pain).

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #167 on: August 27, 2019, 08:01:17 PM »

Hi, nice mod. Like the guns but I've got aquestion, is the pellet gun bugged? On paper it doesnt seem all that supergood but looking at the analytics it outperforms tachyon lances when it comes to total damage and (counting soft flux damage as worth half) is about 4 times better then the hypervelocity driver despite having an OP cost difference of 1.  Btw what file would I need to edit in the mod folder to change the OP cost of the pelletgun? (or it's other stats).  This was for a battle against a huge hegemoney fleet (lots and lots of armour) where the Pellets (together with the hyper velocity drivers) where on autofire as I controlled the tachyons.

Had to crop the picture because of file size limits.
(yeah I know I need to replace the Gale batteries with something but finding the right source of high explosive damage has been a bit of a pain).

First of all, I'm concerned that you would consider something with the same DPS as the HVD, with more than double the up-front damage as looking "not that good on paper"

But to answer your question. Combat Analytics has numerous and well-documented problems properly reporting damage from scripted sources. It is impossible for me to know exactly where the break is, but if I had to guess, CA is counting each of the Pellet Gun's individual shots as having the full listed damage value on the weapon's stat card, rather than the damage values they actually posses. Which would theoretically give the weapon a DPS of just under 1000.

That is just a guess though.

And to be honest I'd rather people raise their grievances over balance with me instead changing things in their local files, a lot of testing and feedback goes into this stuff and for better or worse, there is a reason everything is the way it is.

But if you really must, you can edit the stats of most things with a spreadsheet editor like Excel or OpenOfficeCalc by finding the appropriate .CSV files within a mods file structure.

Be warned though, changing things locally is not a practice officially endorsed by any respectable mod author on here, if you change something yourself and then try to give feedback on a mod, you will be (rightfully) ridiculed.
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battle_sausage

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #168 on: August 28, 2019, 04:25:47 AM »

Oh seems I missspoke a little, when I said "doesnt seem that good on paper" I meant that it didnt seem like it was 4 times as good as the HVD, but it still seemed good because I equiped it. I think youre right about the bug withing Combat Analytics, since for all their suppoused mega damage they never seemed that extreme when in battle, only in the numbers afterwards. 

"I'd rather people raise their grievances over balance with me instead changing things in their local files"
Like I did when I posted in this thread instead of just changing things?

I decided to test the weapon (aswell as was possible, in the simulation against a poor Atlas that didnt shoot back) and you're right, something is up with Combat analytics.
Spoiler
[close]
Compared to the HVD and the Gauss Cannon the Pellet of the same size does roughly double the damage to shields (for a bit over double the flux to fire so it's balanced) and not the quadruple values the analytics was giving.

And once again, nice mod.
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Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #169 on: August 28, 2019, 04:55:33 AM »

"I'd rather people raise their grievances over balance with me instead changing things in their local files"
Like I did when I posted in this thread instead of just changing things?

Exactly like you did, you are fine, these are just things I feel the need to put on record in a clear and concise manner, for a litany of reasons I am too tired to get into right now.

This is something to keep in mind with combat analytics in general though, due to how it functions it is prone to breaking on heavily scripted content that might put the numbers it is looking for in places it doesn't know to look.

Also thank you, this stuff is a lot of work and its nice to know at least one person is enjoying it.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 05:02:08 AM by Gwyvern »
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Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #170 on: September 04, 2019, 09:52:35 PM »

I wish to ask you all a question:



Do people actually use the Medium Bigram Railgun? Why or why not?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 10:03:28 PM by Gwyvern »
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Offensive_Name

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #171 on: September 04, 2019, 10:05:09 PM »

I don't use it on my ship, but I have used it on a few frigates to help support, I had a Monkey model walsh that rocked it and 2 artassaut revolver cannons(small HE diable avionics). He is dead now if that tells you anything, but he sure did last awhile.
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #172 on: September 05, 2019, 04:06:23 PM »

I've used the Bigram in a few cases - generally one of the following:
1: When I've got a carrier (or other support-type ship) that has no business getting close to anything, but has a medium ballistic slot.  Usually those slots get HVDs, but the Bigram is cheaper, which sometimes matters.
2: When I've got a large ship that has some turrets set further back than others.  For example, a Legion XIV with one heavy mauler, 2x HVD, and 2x Bigram, set so that the rearmost two turrets get the bigrams.

That said, these are very niche uses; if the gun vanished, I'd mostly just shrug and use something else.

(The small slot version of it, by contrast, works surprisingly well with IPDAI.  I still don't use it very often, but that gives it three plausible niches to the medium Bigram's two.)
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Orcling

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #173 on: September 07, 2019, 03:31:22 AM »

I like this mod and the ships but i feel like the non-monkey versions are a little too strong. That 30 less recoil is HUGE and don't get me started on the speedboost on large ships. Most other mods have something that balances the bonuses out, like less armor or less Flux or whatnot.
Though they kinda need the recoil bonus for their own weapons, the Society weapons are hot garbage when it comes to accuracy. But if you slap non-society guns on their ships they're nearly unkillable. Oh and also 5% range bonus, geez. I suggest maybe giving their weapons 50% slower turn rate to balance out the bonuses.
The speedboost not working with safety overrides is meaningless because ain't nobody using that.

Though all in all, great mod. I love the pirate versions.
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Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #174 on: September 07, 2019, 05:48:36 AM »

I like this mod and the ships but i feel like the non-monkey versions are a little too strong. That 30 less recoil is HUGE and don't get me started on the speedboost on large ships. Most other mods have something that balances the bonuses out, like less armor or less Flux or whatnot.
Though they kinda need the recoil bonus for their own weapons, the Society weapons are hot garbage when it comes to accuracy. But if you slap non-society guns on their ships they're nearly unkillable. Oh and also 5% range bonus, geez. I suggest maybe giving their weapons 50% slower turn rate to balance out the bonuses.
The speedboost not working with safety overrides is meaningless because ain't nobody using that.

Though all in all, great mod. I love the pirate versions.

You are thinking about the hullmod in a vacuum. The mod itself is only buffs because the ships they are attached to are lacking in other areas. Like poor flux stats and defenses. This is why most of the feedback I receive is pretty-much opposite this, I've been told fighting the ARS is only a notch above fighting the pirates in terms of difficulty.

That being said, fleet testing for the upcoming art rework has begun and preliminary results show that the ARS is now entirely unbeatable. I have no idea what could be causing this, as the ships still fare average-to-poor in AI duels, but if I find out the hullmod has anything to do with it, then it is not sacred either and will be corrected as deemed necessary.

Also the speed boost not working with safety overrides is entirely because of the Macnamara. That ship is absolutely bonkers with SO and the last thing it needed was *More* speed, and only disabling the bonus on that ship would be gamey.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 05:52:26 AM by Gwyvern »
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Ass-Haggis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #175 on: September 07, 2019, 05:54:55 AM »

I've found the best success with Society ships and equipment using a kind of long range standoff strategy using Lyons cruisers as the mainliners with Victorias as their escorts, then having a couple Macnamaras escorted by a few Reids each to pincer around the sidelines.

Honestly you can't go wrong with Victorias, you can always have more and I would never turn one down, that debuff in combination with their versatile loadouts is just so helpful against most threats! I just wish my Gregory swarms would stop suiciding into each other/enemy ships/allied ships/our station we are defending/the enemy station we are besieging. (funny tho)
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Orcling

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #176 on: September 07, 2019, 07:43:29 AM »

I like this mod and the ships but i feel like the non-monkey versions are a little too strong. That 30 less recoil is HUGE and don't get me started on the speedboost on large ships. Most other mods have something that balances the bonuses out, like less armor or less Flux or whatnot.
Though they kinda need the recoil bonus for their own weapons, the Society weapons are hot garbage when it comes to accuracy. But if you slap non-society guns on their ships they're nearly unkillable. Oh and also 5% range bonus, geez. I suggest maybe giving their weapons 50% slower turn rate to balance out the bonuses.
The speedboost not working with safety overrides is meaningless because ain't nobody using that.

Though all in all, great mod. I love the pirate versions.

You are thinking about the hullmod in a vacuum. The mod itself is only buffs because the ships they are attached to are lacking in other areas. Like poor flux stats and defenses. This is why most of the feedback I receive is pretty-much opposite this, I've been told fighting the ARS is only a notch above fighting the pirates in terms of difficulty.

That being said, fleet testing for the upcoming art rework has begun and preliminary results show that the ARS is now entirely unbeatable. I have no idea what could be causing this, as the ships still fare average-to-poor in AI duels, but if I find out the hullmod has anything to do with it, then it is not sacred either and will be corrected as deemed necessary.

Also the speed boost not working with safety overrides is entirely because of the Macnamara. That ship is absolutely bonkers with SO and the last thing it needed was *More* speed, and only disabling the bonus on that ship would be gamey.

I'm not thinking about it in a vacuum at all. I think because the ARS does bad as a faction is because their weapons are garbage, like I mentioned. The ships themselves are great- I almost have exclusively ARS ships in my fleet right now and they do MUCH better than most of my other ships. I'm just not using Society weapons because as much range as they have, with the accuracy of most of them you can't hit anything, turret turn rate is bad aswell. The Bullpup Autocannon for example doesn't even come close to the Vanilla Assault Gun, even if it does have 100 more range. The Bulldog is better than the Vanilla equivalent but when you get to large slots the ARS guns get outperformed by the Vanilla guns in every way.

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Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #177 on: September 07, 2019, 03:27:18 PM »

The only weapons in this entire mod that suffers from accuracy problems during sustained fire are the Bullpup and Bulldog autocannons.

Testing a single bullpup autocannon against 1000 armor vs a Light Assault gun and the same. Both within 100SU
- Bullpup breaks through the armor in 21 seconds
- Light Assault gun breaks through the armor in 20 seconds.

This is because damage per shot has a much higher effect on armor than raw damage per second does, and the Bullpup does more than double the damage per shot. This is while costing 20 less flux per second to fire, and having 15% more range.

The only other weapons that even have accuracy stats in the first place are the Bongo/Bassdrum, which are specifically engineered to cast a wide net to intercept a large number of incomming missiles simultaneously, and the Monogram series, which only has a little bit of deviation.

Every other weapon in the mod has perfect accuracy that never deviates regardless of what ship its mounted on.

As for the larges. The Pellet cannon has roughly equivalent stats to the gauss cannon, except it does 215% more damage up-front, for a 16% reduction in damage per second. It also costs 40 less flux per second to fire. The Gauss cannon remains better against light armor, but the Pellet cannon deals such heavy damage to shields it can often force an overload if the AI hesitates to drop their shields for even a moment. It also used to do the same DPS, but I got complaints that it made the Gauss cannon entirely redundant.

The Heavy Plasma Driver is an armor cracking tachyon lance alternative with *more* damage per second that costs a whole 4 less OP to mount. It doesn't have the tach lance's insane burst potential, but not much in this world should, because the tachyon lance does it so well already.

The Mk2 Bigram railgun has 1500 range, a whopping 300 more than the longest ranged vanilla weapon. If that isn't enough, It is also dirt cheap to mount for a large weapon at a paltry 18 OP, and costs only a little more flux to fire than a hellbore, while doing 260% more damage than one.
Sure, its fragmentation damage so it isn't going to crack armor very well, nor is it going to apply all of that damage to shields. but at those ranges it would be unfathomably overpowered if it could. Use it to suppress your enemies from a position of safety while another ship worries about killing them.

Also the faction has access to basically all vanilla weapons and regularly mounts them.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 03:34:43 PM by Gwyvern »
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Takion Kasukedo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #178 on: September 07, 2019, 03:37:11 PM »

I put the Bigram series of railguns on weak ships or ships good at harassing/pressure, with mobility options. I don't use it myself, but at least a few fleet members do.

Player guns are more like the Pellet series of guns and the Bull series. The Rods are a gift for inaccurate, but decent sniping with a bit of homing in, mind.
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WolfPriest

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.4.2 [07/1/19]
« Reply #179 on: September 21, 2019, 09:45:18 AM »

First, I am really big fan of this mod, and had a lot of fun using Reparation ships only (when they became available, of course). The trouble is, I'm really gimped for Blueprints. I never got the package with multiple craft/weapons in it, and it took a lot of time raiding the stations to infinity and beyond to get anything. If that is how it works, ok. The questions is, can we even get "generic society" blueprints? Those looked like a ton of fun, but I never got them.
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