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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 1.0  (Read 335306 times)

Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #315 on: August 21, 2019, 05:59:27 PM »

depends on numerous factors, so it varies
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Taverius

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #316 on: August 21, 2019, 06:03:49 PM »

The wing-like capital, is its ability supposed to not move you at all once you have flux?
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cathar

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #317 on: August 26, 2019, 02:08:38 AM »

Hey, just registered to post here, basically.

Just finished my first vanilla playthrough and am now diving headfirst into modded with Nexerelin and lots of extra factions. To slowly learn all the mod factions I am doing a pure playthrough with each of them.

Chose Sylphon as the first cause it just looks so damn cool.

First off, having a pure Sylphon RnD fleet just looks amazing! The color schemes, visual effects and weapon colors mesh extremely well and make it feel like I am in command of this otherworldy high tech demon force. I didn't mess with Phase Ships much in my first playthrough and am having so much fun piloting a Rakia. The way its phasing and rockets look make for a very satisfying experience.

I do have some questions:

What is the point of loading up Alpha Cores into my ships? Spending an alpha core for the bigger ships is a hefty investment and I don't really understand what it will give me.

What exactly is the Seresvalla supposed to do? Loadout-wise, I slapped as many missiles on it as possible and it seems effective enough as a big missile cruiser, but I don't understand the effect it is supposed to have on the other ships in my fleet. Also, is it worth it to have more than one? Does whatever positive effect it has stack?

Any good loadout tips for some of the slower ships, especially the Etrika and Valestri? I can't really seem to make them work properly, and by the time they arrive at the front lines my faster ships are already either done or in trouble.
And gods forbid one of them gets it in their head to "chase" a faster ship. They tend to end up on the other side of the battlefield, being kited into infinity, their supply cost completely wasted on some lone Wolf or Kite.

How do you properly use the Tarima? Both me and the AI seem to be struggling with utilizing the built in weapons.

Also struggling a bit with the Replekia. I'm using it as a heavy broadside ship but compared to even vanilla ships like the Conquest I had lategame in vanilla it just seems slow and flux inefficient for its cost.

As for the Rakia, like I said it is a lot of fun, I do wonder what would be the best extra weapons in addition to the built in ones? I now have Hypervelocity drivers on it but they don't seem to contribute much to its alpha striking ability. Wish I could load it up with even more rockets.

Haven't messed with the other bigger ships as I just don't have the money and supplies yet to properly pay for their maintenance, but I am very much looking forward to it.


I assume a lot of my struggles are based on my limited experience with the game in general and high tech ships in particular, but any pointers with loadouts (best case only using Sylphon and vanilla weapons) would be much appreciated.


Thank you so much for your hard work on this mod, it is a joy to play, and I am looking forward to the eventual sector-wide rule of our AI overlords once I am done with the playthrough.

Cheers,
Peter
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Asynchronicity

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #318 on: August 26, 2019, 08:12:19 AM »

I can't comment on most of that (still figuring out the Replekia myself) but I'm using the Seresvalla as my flagship and it absolutely slays. The trick is that it's blazingly fast with an incredible shield tank, so you can zip around with impunity. I normally charge in and use the large energy mount to overflux ships while eating as much of the incoming fire as I can. I use the speed to strafe around and flank slow capitals or to herd the group. Your job in the Seresvalla is to control the flow of battle using your mobility, punishing overloads and overextensions with missile barrages while you watch the enemy fruitlessly hammer at your indestructible shield.  Try out the Shield Conversion - Front hullmod for added invincibility.
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Starareo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #319 on: August 26, 2019, 04:56:30 PM »

@Cathar I'm using the Seresvalla as a support/suppression capital with Purgatory cannons. I load up on support hullmods like Nav Relay and the ship itself boosts your fleets burn by 1, which is fantastic. In combat, the Seresvalla gives all your ships 20% faster turn rate, so more maneuverability, and doubles the passive speed boost from nullspace conduits.

In my opinion, you are better off saving alpha cores for your colonies, as the Sylph Core tooltip just says 10% increased maintenance in exchange for no crew requirement. Crew costs are negligible lategame, and ships with AI installed have a chance to rebel in the middle of a fight.

Can't speak for the Etrika because I tend to shun most ships smaller than a cruiser but I love the Valestri, one of my favorite cruisers out of all my mods/vanilla. The Valestri has armor comparable to capitals and tons of flexibility with all its mounts. I throw on a nullspace soother to bring its burn up and help combat manueverability, expanded missile racks, and Raphiels for long-range anti-shield missile swarms. Play around with the large and medium energy slots based on what you want, I just throw on long-range weapons with decent flux. Deploy your Valestris first and faster ships afterwards. Valestri also has great built-in PD with its Disavowals and drones.

For the Rakia, abuse its broken stealth. Put two Charity strike blasters on it or another strike weapon, phase behind some ship, and unload everything on it at once, then phase away to safety and vent. Only hullmod you really need on it imo is Integrated Targeting Unit.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #320 on: August 27, 2019, 04:45:37 AM »

I'm thinking of new Sylphon start ship sets for Nexerelin

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cathar

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #321 on: August 28, 2019, 02:38:22 AM »

@Asynchronicity:
Haven't found the Shield Conversion Front yet, for now I have a lvl20 officer with Missile Spec and Flux stuff in the Seresvalla and it's already a force to be reckoned with. I still have far too much fun with the Rakia to give up piloting it for anything else. Plus the AI seems fairly competent at using the special abilities of the Seresvalla, pumping flux explosions into enemies alongside the missile barrage.

I did test out having multiple Seresvalla in a combat sim and in campaign mode and it seems to not stack in any way, so there's no benefit to having more than one. Could be wrong of course.


@Starareo:
I'll fiddle a bit more with the Valestri, but I still can't make it work. I will post my exact loadout later, maybe I am just doing something incredibly wrong.
My Rakia now has Ion Cannons (or something like that name, don't have the game open right now) and it has incredible alpha striking. Pretty much anything I catch with it's back turned gets instantly overloaded if I manage to hit it with all guns at once.


Since my last post my Etrika and Tarima died and I have replaced them with a pair of Dread Eagles, which are hilarious and awesome and I kinda wanna try out a fleet just filled with those. Still need to find better loadouts as they seem very flux hungry but it's just so much fun to watch them zip about the battlefield. AI seems decent with them as well.

I have also picked up a Sylvetra but I guess I don't really understand what it's supposed to do either. It also seems to have behaviour I have seen with many missile heavy ships where it will go extremely close to the enemy even if it only has an engage order. Of course there's a chance I might just have the wrong missiles on it. Any tips?

Any opinions on the Sylphon fighters and their carriers? Right now I have this jumbled mix of whichever I could pick up from vendors, not sure if there are any cool combinations I am missing.


Cheers for the help guys, still enjoying this Sylphon run, currently exterminating the Hegemony system by system.


EDIT: I also noticed a random thing that I'm not sure which mod affects this and if this might be intended behaviour, but: In my Nexerelin game, when Sylphon invades someone, they have these massive fleets with loads of capitals and firepower. However, when the Hegemony tried to invade Castrum with 3 huge fleets, the defense fleets Sylphon spawned where these pitiful small pickets that were shot away by all the Legions.
I had a lot of fun repelling that invasion but I did wonder if that is how it is supposed to be.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 03:01:43 AM by cathar »
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Taverius

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #322 on: August 29, 2019, 05:43:28 AM »

Enjoying myself a lot, bar a few things I'm having issues with:

  • Tarima: As far as I can tell this is a 1 deployement more expensive HVD/Mauler hammerhead that is worse in basically every way. I don't understand it. Halp.
  • Sylvetra: In order to make ammo you have to eat fire that will kill you, unless you fight things so weak there's no reason to use a cruiser against them. What's the trick?
  • Replekia: Haven't found a setup with Sylphon weapons where the AI will actually move in close enough to use its big guns, its just hovers at the edge of missile range forever. I might need to try an aggressive or reckless officer on it, but I shouldn't have to.
  • Nullspace Skip system: I still think this is weak due to it getting slowed down if you have flux. Jaunt is great.
  • Valestri: Great ship, but burn 7 is needlessly punishing resource-wise. Oxes are expensive to run. Its not that strong, especially if I drop shunt for soother for the burn speed.

Also I really need a Phaeton-equivalent. Because the Phaeton isnt purple, which is plainly criminal. Or maybe some generic exploration support ship with cargo, fuel, crew space and a salvage gantry. I'm using the Badger from Vayra but ITS NOT PURPLE >:(
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 05:45:01 AM by Taverius »
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Ambient

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #323 on: August 29, 2019, 06:09:35 AM »

The sylphon outcasts are power for player ships. The Metafalica ghostship is so fun to play. Is that the outcast's biggest ship or do they have some other for me to find?
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #324 on: August 29, 2019, 07:24:48 AM »

@Traverius:
- Tarima is simply not a very good ship. Not every ship in a faction should be equally good. Keeps fleets balanced and nicer to play against.
- Sylvetra is more of a support ship and really good at baiting and eating fighters. It's not a duelist at all and should stick close to allies and intercept enemy missiles/fighters.
- Replekia got hit the hardest by the recent nerf to some weapon ranges. I might give it a unique hullmod to boost energy weapon ranges by 100-200su to offset that.
- Skip system is getting a bit of a buff, but there's no such thing as it getting slowed down when you have flux. It functions the same regardless of flux levels.
- Burn 7 keeps it in line with other heavy cruisers and Sylphon already has access to a basically free +1 burn from having a Seresvalla in the fleet.

as for the phaeton, not gonna happen. I regard Sylphon as basically content-complete and am focusing on Tahlan Shipworks for the time being. There's really not much reason to add yet another not!Phaeton to the game just to paint it a different colour.


@Ambient
Metafalica is the largest outcast ship
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Taverius

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #325 on: August 29, 2019, 07:34:10 AM »

@Nia Ohai! :D

What I mean is, its based on your normal speed, so if you have 0-flux boost you move quite a bit, but an Equilibrium with flux up just sort of ... hovers there blurred for a couple of seconds.

Re: phaeton, ok, so can you edit the market a little so salvage gantry ships and tankers and cruise liners show up? Occasionally I'll see one in the black market but its not enough.

Thanks for the rest of it :D
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cathar

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #326 on: August 29, 2019, 08:01:29 AM »

How do I get Outcast ships? I've only seen their fighters and weapons on the Sylphon markets.


@Traverius:
- Tarima is simply not a very good ship. Not every ship in a faction should be equally good. Keeps fleets balanced and nicer to play against.

I understand that point from a balancing perspective, but then maybe advertise it as such in game.

If I recall correctly, not at my pc at the moment, it's described to be centered around utilizing the built in weapons to best effect or something along those lines. Which led me to believe that if it doesn't work, I need to change the loadout until it works.

Now you say it's meant to be garbage tier anyway, that devalues a large chunk of my early game experience when I piloted that thing and kept changing it up to make it work.

Maybe describe it as a failed experiment that is only rarely used by Sylphon now or something.


@Traverius: I had similar struggles with the Sylvetra, it's working decently well as a protector of my own carriers. I was hoping it would do more on its own cause the concept is extremely cool, but it just doesn't get enough missiles back from using its system to make it worth using as an aggressive attacker.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #327 on: August 29, 2019, 08:15:45 AM »

Outcast are just rare spawns.

As for the Tarima, it's not meant to be garbage, it's just mid-tier and can work just fine. It's just not a top-tier destroyer like the Hammerhead.

@Taverius:
The missing civilian ships are a bit of an oversight. Will be fixed next patch.
Skip will be changed to no longer have 0-flux bonus while active, but will be stronger overall.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #328 on: August 29, 2019, 12:19:42 PM »

So this will be going on the Replekia and the Valestri since they are big, fat and slow:

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bowman

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #329 on: August 29, 2019, 02:52:40 PM »

I'd actually disagree that Nullspace Skip is weak. You are able to dissipate flux while skipping and even being relatively immobile on an Equilibrium when in the thick of things is incredibly powerful as a result. In fact, that's what I like about it: it isn't an easy get out of jail card if you mess up your positioning but you can delay a fight similar to a Paragon cycling its fortress shield when maxed out on soft flux. If you do it right, you can trade a few hits on armor for full vent into 0-flux boost & disengage and that is incredibly satisfying (this is particularly effective and I'd even say necessary against the Remnants; getting focused by multiple Brilliants or Brilliant(s) + Radiant is certain death if you have no way to disengage once they get on you.

My main gripe I guess is that I dislike when the Radiant just teleports backwards over and over when it messes up, and I don't think allowing the Equilibrium to do something similar without some tradeoff is necessarily a good idea. As "The Player", I can do something similar to teleporting backwards via fully venting and tanking hits on armor until I get 0-flux boost so I can Skip backwards at ~3-400 speed but the key thing is that this requires I tank damage on my armor, meaning the enemy has a chance to deal significant damage to me or prevent my escape if, for example, they fire torpedos which I'd rather shield-tank than let hit my armor whereas the Radiant doesn't have this downside at all: teleporting might cost some flux but I believe it to simply be a case where the AI isn't smart enough (not that I have a problem with this, AI is hard to make) as I'm nearly certain the Radiant could chain teleport to disengage then vent and keep fighting for pretty much no punishment.

This isn't a multiplayer game, so having counterplay isn't really a necessity (and there are certainly vessels whose entire purpose can be to not have true counterplay. In fact, I think stations can be a loose example: you can't really 1v1 them with anything, you need to simply overwhelm them in the flux war or lose), but I think in a general case it is good in order to not frustrate the player.

I will admit, though, that since the AI is incapable of making exactly those kinds of multi-tiered decisions removing the 0-flux boost entirely and making it stronger overall would certainly make it easier for the AI to put it to full effect. I'm not sure how well the AI currently pilots the Equilibrium since I've been using it as my flagship since I got it (and I love it so much).
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