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Author Topic: Skill idea to boost combat aptitude  (Read 5177 times)

Goumindong

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Re: Skill idea to boost combat aptitude
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 03:31:06 PM »

The solution is not "make things equal" though i do like this specific skill proposed here

The solution is to more rigidly define the skill point structure so that players are choosing between which combat skills they want and which tech skills they want rather than whether or not they want tech or combat. The more iconic/powerful skills can be level gated as you attain the base skill (which you would get for free)

You can do this yourself by giving yourself 1 free point per 4 levels to put into base skills and then putting each level up point into the appropriate position. It works pretty well in building well rounded characters and also providing reasonable level up dilemmas
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Skill idea to boost combat aptitude
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 04:21:11 PM »

The solution is not "make things equal" though i do like this specific skill proposed here

The solution is to more rigidly define the skill point structure so that players are choosing between which combat skills they want and which tech skills they want rather than whether or not they want tech or combat. The more iconic/powerful skills can be level gated as you attain the base skill (which you would get for free)

You can do this yourself by giving yourself 1 free point per 4 levels to put into base skills and then putting each level up point into the appropriate position. It works pretty well in building well rounded characters and also providing reasonable level up dilemmas

A while ago I suggested separate xp/skill point systems for campaign and combat skills http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13076.0. This is a perhaps an extension of that idea. Separate xp/skill systems for each tree would mean points in each system are not competing with each other as you suggested. Not sure if that's what you were getting at, also not sure if the degree of added complexity would be too much.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 04:43:20 PM by intrinsic_parity »
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Megas

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Re: Skill idea to boost combat aptitude
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2018, 04:59:48 PM »

Separating pilot-only, fleetwide, and campaign skills has the advantage that pilot-only skills (and only those skills) can be respec'ed safely.  If player gets sick of piloting a carrier, he can reset that subset of skills, along with levels if necessary, then earn those levels back to pilot big, bad Paragon or other ship optimally.  No longer would officers be the privileged class that can reset their combat skills.  Fleetwide and campaign stuff still get locked in.
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Goumindong

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Re: Skill idea to boost combat aptitude
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2018, 08:13:04 PM »

The solution is not "make things equal" though i do like this specific skill proposed here

The solution is to more rigidly define the skill point structure so that players are choosing between which combat skills they want and which tech skills they want rather than whether or not they want tech or combat. The more iconic/powerful skills can be level gated as you attain the base skill (which you would get for free)

You can do this yourself by giving yourself 1 free point per 4 levels to put into base skills and then putting each level up point into the appropriate position. It works pretty well in building well rounded characters and also providing reasonable level up dilemmas

A while ago I suggested separate xp/skill point systems for campaign and combat skills http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13076.0. This is a perhaps an extension of that idea. Separate xp/skill systems for each tree would mean points in each system are not competing with each other as you suggested. Not sure if that's what you were getting at, also not sure if the degree of added complexity would be too much.

I am familiar. I had beat you by over a year :p

And I don’t think I was the first.
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mehgamer

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Re: Skill idea to boost combat aptitude
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2018, 12:51:38 PM »

Personally something I wanna point out with the OP idea I can see is that it promotes snowballing.  Starsector combat is already kind of sink or swim, and while it may feel satisfying to rapidly get a half dozen kills with your flagship and provide your fleet with a whole 15% boost in damage, or something, it's a 15% damage boost deployed against a fleet that you probably now outnumber and outgun already.  Basically, by the time that you get the buff to a significant level, it's too late to really matter.

I suppose the perk idea does make possible a "mega-murder" strategy where you deploy your fleet against an enemy that far outmatches yours, but you equip a flagship with high-power burst killing weapons (such as missiles) and just blast all the ships you can before either fleet can fully commit.  But that sounds less like a "strategy" to me so much as flexing on the AI because you leveled the "one man army" tree.  And as much as people complain that the current combat tree is a shadow of the old one, full treeing combat basically turns you invulnerable in .8 and you can pull the maneuver I described off anyway.  Combat+Tech is basically the most lethal" way to level yourself, focusing on all the "piloted ship" buffs with only 3 points spared for getting yourself +10% OP because, uh, come on.

Of course, what someone with skill "can" do and what the general player base is aware of or is also capable of pulling off is not one in the same.  The real value of the idea as outlined in OP isn't actually the mechanical effect, it's the "feeling" of it.  Logically, 20% damage boosts when you outnumber the enemy fleet 2 to 1 doesn't matter at all.  Emotionally, it's a great way to encourage players to try a combat-focused playstyle when they may otherwise think it's not useful.  In reality the combat tree is PLENTY useful, it's just harder to see (how is +150 armor for the purpose of DR going to help me kill things?).  The suggestion in this thread OP would be "visible" enough to seem like a good idea.
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Megas

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Re: Skill idea to boost combat aptitude
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2018, 01:08:07 PM »

Tangentially, snowballing is why more than a point in Electronic Warfare is not very useful, aside from cheesing the battlestation.  By the time the bonus is big enough against an enemy fleet with Electronic Warfare, your fleet has basically won.  The only way Electronic Warfare 2 or 3 is useful against a similar enemy fleet is if you put ECM Package on many ships, which hurts given the stingy OP totals.  That said, ECM Package as a second ITU on the few ships with OP to spare can be useful.
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