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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Minefields  (Read 33169 times)

Megas

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2018, 06:36:38 AM »

RE: IA on Medusa:
Spoiler
I do not want Interdictor on Medusa.  Keep the skimmer on it (unless it gets a better mobility system).
I mean, as-is the Interdictor Array might be a little weak but with minor buffs (to the system or the ship) I think it's a fine fit for the Medusa.

I feel like a phase skimmer destroyer wants to be sleeker and shootier.
[close]
Medusa is probably the fastest there is of its size, in terms of base stats.  With typical high-tech design (fast but awful shot range and efficiency), Medusa needs the skimmer to get close to enemies and get out.  Interdictor Array does nothing to incoming missiles and shots.  While I use the skimmer sometimes to get closer, I use it primarily as an escape button.
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steelwing

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2018, 07:03:44 AM »

This is going to be very cool.
Will the mines only be on one ship class, or are there plans to implement it on others?
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Alex

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2018, 08:02:16 AM »

@Alex, thanks for detailed analysis of why that won't work.

Do mines have friendly fire? If yes, is it easy/possible to make Doom kill itself/allies with mines? By spamming Talons on top of it/it's allies, for example. Then again, Talon Astral is a gimmick build at best.

They do have friendly fire, but the AI is extremely careful about not teleporting them near friendly ships. I won't say it's impossible to make it score allied hits, but (barring bugs?) I'd imagine it would not be something you could do reliably or as a viable tactic.

On the flip side, this means (just tested) that a Talon - or any other purely-fighter-focused Astral (i.e. without bombers) - will in fact beat the Doom. The fighters respawn too quickly, and end up overwhelming the mine output. It's just tough to keep up with the replacement fighters, and tough to take out enough per mine hit when they're already swarming the Doom. It has to do much of the work in taking the fighters out during their approach, or if it happens to catch them regrouping near the carrier. Once they're close in, it gets much more difficult.


Oh wow oh wow oh wow I'm actually super hyped for this feature.  ;D And the Doom! The poor, mistreated Doom is finally getting a ship system deserving of a phase cruiser!  :D The Interdictor Array was admittedly so lackluster compared to the fancy gimmicks other phase ships offered, and while I hope it finds a home on another ship, I'm not sorry to see it leave the Doom's system slot in favour of (dear lord) a minelayer.

With these new minefields, I just know 0.9's gonna be a blast:P

:D You sound almost as excited about mines as I am!

Any chance of seeing a gif of the Doom in action with its new system? Should I cross my fingers and hope it's featured on Screenshot Saturday?shootier.[/spoiler]

I'll see about recording a timelapse at some point, it's a good idea!

+1 to keeping skimmer on Medusa. It is the only vanilla DE I like piloting (for significant amount of time), precisely because of it's system.

Yeah, going to keep it on the Medusa, it's kind of the Medusa's thing.


Yes, I've enjoyed the recent influx of activity. Also, a lot of those things sound like refinement of aspects that are mostly done (like this one). I think we are getting closer, although I may, of course, be entirely wrong.

It's refinement of orbital station battle mechanics, so that's true, but it doesn't say much about the state of affairs elsewhere.


Im hoping for something like this scene from starwars :D


That's not from Star Wars! They only ever made three movies, etc etc etc.

Ahem.

(Also, hi and welcome to the forum!)

Hum is it that much efficient to have the missile spinning around rather than having a rotating sprite on an otherwise regular missile going forward?

Well, "efficient" in the sense that it took one line of code :)

So...does this mean the Doom is now the Kira Yoshikage of spaceships?

Is that an anime thing? Sounds like an anime thing. Akira and Cowboy Bepop is about the extent of my familiarity with the genre :)

This is going to be very cool.
Will the mines only be on one ship class, or are there plans to implement it on others?

Nothing I'd call "plans"; certainly keeping an eye out for opportunities, but it'd have to be something special.
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Gothars

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2018, 09:54:53 AM »

Alex, you had me at "too cool a concept not to get into Starsector" ;D

Looking forward to taking down Kanta's Den, I'm guessing it's a fortress since it supposedly has mines:)


Station mines never stop spawning, right? You can't take out some module to make them stop?

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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2018, 10:48:28 AM »

I'd assume the reason they never stop is because all the mines are just stealthily hidden around the field before battle, and all you're getting hit by are pre-laid mines, as opposed to the station churning them out mid-combat.
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Alex

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2018, 11:01:44 AM »

Alex, you had me at "too cool a concept not to get into Starsector" ;D

:D

Looking forward to taking down Kanta's Den, I'm guessing it's a fortress since it supposedly has mines:)

Hmm - a good question. I mean, it ought to have mines, but it would be doable to have a one-off non-star-fortress that had them. On the other hand, Kanta has put in quite a lot of effort into that base over time, so it being a star fortress wouldn't be out of character.

Station mines never stop spawning, right? You can't take out some module to make them stop?

Right - though that's an idea! The mines come from a "stealth minefield" hullmod on the main station body, which is indestructible. But if they were on another module that isn't, they could be taken out.

I'd assume the reason they never stop is because all the mines are just stealthily hidden around the field before battle, and all you're getting hit by are pre-laid mines, as opposed to the station churning them out mid-combat.

Right, yeah, conceptually that's the case. So "mine-laying module that you can take out" might make more sense to handle as a special case of the Doom's system - longer range, more mines, and whatnot. Actually, an "intelligent" minefield like that sounds like a fun twist on the concept.
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Wyvern

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2018, 11:09:17 AM »

Right, yeah, conceptually that's the case. So "mine-laying module that you can take out" might make more sense to handle as a special case of the Doom's system - longer range, more mines, and whatnot. Actually, an "intelligent" minefield like that sounds like a fun twist on the concept.
Great - the fully-upgraded [REDACTED] battlestation just got that much scarier, didn't it?

(Edit: While phrased as sarcasm, because it's more amusing that way, I'm not actually opposed to this notion.  Plus it'd be interesting to distinguish different types of battlestations; I'd imagine a group like the hegemony would go with a pre-deployed field that can't be shut down, while, say, Tri-Tachyon might go for the fancy long-range mine teleporter.)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 11:10:59 AM by Wyvern »
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

FooF

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2018, 11:30:20 AM »

I foresee a pirate ship (Mudskipper Mk. III!) whose primary role is to be a pain-in-the-butt and lay mines throughout the map. Make the thing absurdly fast and have a decent shield but with minimal weapons and flux stats. It's the pirate version of a phase ship. :P
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Alex

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2018, 11:50:30 AM »

Great - the fully-upgraded [REDACTED] battlestation just got that much scarier, didn't it?

HMMM.

(Edit: While phrased as sarcasm, because it's more amusing that way, I'm not actually opposed to this notion.  Plus it'd be interesting to distinguish different types of battlestations; I'd imagine a group like the hegemony would go with a pre-deployed field that can't be shut down, while, say, Tri-Tachyon might go for the fancy long-range mine teleporter.)

(Yeah, that's how I'd been thinking about it; could be a nice tech-level differentiator.)


I foresee a pirate ship (Mudskipper Mk. III!) whose primary role is to be a pain-in-the-butt and lay mines throughout the map. Make the thing absurdly fast and have a decent shield but with minimal weapons and flux stats. It's the pirate version of a phase ship. :P

I either like, or don't like, the way you think. Not sure which.
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SCC

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2018, 12:04:32 PM »

Quote
The system AI uses a fairly versatile scoring system to prioritize mine-targeting. For a proficiency test, it had to solo an Astral carrier – which it did, laying mines ahead of incoming fighter flight paths, then crippling the fighter wings trying to regroup behind the carrier, and eventually pressuring and destroying the carrier itself.
Vicious! I like it.
I have not voiced this before, but I hope pirate stations will have mix and match tech modules on their stations, even if it doesn't make much sense lorewise.

HELMUT

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2018, 01:13:25 PM »

New strat : Doom support fleet, with a scarab flagship to push the enemy right on those big stacks of mines.

More seriously (?), that sounds really neat. IA didn't worked very well on the Doom, it should be much more interesting with that new system.
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Linnis

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2018, 02:11:38 PM »

I H A T E T H E S E M I N E S.

Well, visually anyways.

First of all, the purple explosion... These look like some kind of plasma cannon shot similar effect... Seems very very high tech. Like it makes sense if the purple powerful variant came out of the doom. But a station? Maybe a red or yellow explosions like the Atropos or reaper?  Also the red glowing indicator makes no sense lore wise but gameplay wise make sense, to better suit it mines should glow minimally to show what type it is, but most of the indication cones from a bigger UI indication like big red diamond.
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Alex

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2018, 03:08:41 PM »

I have not voiced this before, but I hope pirate stations will have mix and match tech modules on their stations, even if it doesn't make much sense lorewise.

I think it'll probably depend on the station. Nice idea about mix-and-match, though; a "cheap" way to get some variety.

More seriously (?), that sounds really neat. IA didn't worked very well on the Doom, it should be much more interesting with that new system.

(Is "IA" a way of saying "AI" in another language? Second time it's come up in this thread!)


First of all, the purple explosion... These look like some kind of plasma cannon shot similar effect... Seems very very high tech. Like it makes sense if the purple powerful variant came out of the doom. But a station? Maybe a red or yellow explosions like the Atropos or reaper?

There may or may not be an effort underway at a reskinned low-tech version of the mine for non-high-tech stations.

Also the red glowing indicator makes no sense lore wise but gameplay wise make sense, to better suit it mines should glow minimally to show what type it is, but most of the indication cones from a bigger UI indication like big red diamond.

Hard disagree! I think that sort of stuff works infinitely better when it's conveyed directly by the in-game thing rather than a UI element on top of thing.


Btw, here's the requested Doom-vs-Astral fight gif:
https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/978385366842531840
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SCC

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2018, 03:39:40 PM »

(Is "IA" a way of saying "AI" in another language? Second time it's come up in this thread!)
Any romance language. I suspected German at first, but kunstliche doesn't fit the bill. I personally suspect that HELMUT got bamboozled by MajorTheRed and later mentions of interdictor array.
There may or may not be an effort underway at a reskinned low-tech version of the mine for non-high-tech stations.
I wish there were gameplay differences between the mine types (mainly fuses), but I guess streamlining is better.

Goumindong

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Re: Minefields
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2018, 04:35:11 PM »

I mean, the mines are phased and "smart", what could possibly go wrong?

Sabotage options to inhibit shipping by swapping the IFF on mines.

Pirate IFF signals to get around the mines and enter markets.

Fleets with their transponders off could have delayed mine activation because the IFF has to take longer to rule out friendlies....

Can see loads of cool interactions coming with this
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