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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Thumper Ed., 0.3.7b)  (Read 605255 times)

Screech9791

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #585 on: May 30, 2023, 07:30:58 PM »


why does fang society still have finches
I thought the base hull was removed during that time you went over removing pointless ships because the finch was just another redundant barely armed civilian ship
and unlike other modded faction's generic transport ships, the finch didn't have the excuse of matching said modded factions' aesthetic styles so they wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb, so the finch didn't even have that excuse for being kept

anyways next patch, remember to get rid of this skin
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Gift-of-Life

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #586 on: May 30, 2023, 09:14:34 PM »

I love this mod! Thanks for keeping with it.
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Wuorg

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #587 on: May 31, 2023, 03:38:04 AM »

Hi, first time trying this mod and having a lot of fun with it!

I am a little confused by the Richardson Cannon. The description calls it "surprisingly flux efficient," but it uses 3200 (!) flux per second. It also supposedly does 6400 dps. Are these typos or what?

Thanks!
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Screech9791

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #588 on: May 31, 2023, 06:08:14 PM »

Hi, first time trying this mod and having a lot of fun with it!

I am a little confused by the Richardson Cannon. The description calls it "surprisingly flux efficient," but it uses 3200 (!) flux per second. It also supposedly does 6400 dps. Are these typos or what?

Thanks!
I think something's really wrong with that thing's efficiency. 0.5 flux per damage on a frag weapon (which has 25% damage against anything except exposed hull, which would be 2 flux per effective damage to shields and probably even worse against armor due to hit strength mechanics) is clearly not "surprisingly flux efficient", that would instead be "so inefficient it'll build up flux for you faster than it does to the enemy's shields".
And good luck actually applying that 6400 DPS with the terrible accuracy and reliance on the enemy not having much remaining armor coverage, because if it's armor is stripped on an entire side, it's probably going to die to other weapons anyways.
I'm not really sure if it actually serves any niche that other large ballistic weapons have, or at least one that's worth the extremely high sustained flux per second. If you're fielding ships with large weapons, then you probably have the DPS to chew through hull anyways, so you won't need an overspecialized weapon for that purpose. And if you want saturated PD, just use a devastator cannon, paladin PD, or any other modded large PD weapon.

Maybe all this is the reason why the weapon's blueprint was left buried in the middle of goddamn nowhere, only being recovered and used by a faction of scavengers known for using literal trash as part of their fleets. I would probably not even notice if the Richardson Cannon gets removed during the next de-bloating spree, and that trash getting removed from the HMI blueprints could probably be a useful buff for the faction's fleets so they won't run out of flux as quickly, as I've been hearing discussion on other sites about how HMI's ships tend to be on the underpowered side (at least regarding junkers/modified mining hulls) and I don't think terrible weapons help with that. (I'd also prefer being able to loot weapons that are actually useful, by the way)

This rant is probably a bit long, so i'll just throw out a TL;DR question: Why is there a terribly flux inefficient large slot fragmentation weapon without the accuracy, range, or hit strength to accomplish anything that other weapons can't do better?
oh and sorry if this post feels a bit harsh, I just really wanted to vent (hah) about how inefficient the Richardson Cannon is. If you want to keep it, find some way to buff it or just rework it.

While I'm here, I guess I'd also like to a report a bug - I've occasionally seen modded ships in Obsidian pirate subfaction fleets, including ones outside of their specific design types (Ship & Weapon Pack's Nautilus high-tech combat freighter appearing in the low tech/midline fleets, for example). I unfortunately don't have a screenshot of it, but just trust me
Quote from: HMI 0.3.5i changelog
-Obsidian has been reworked; now spawn hostile fleets based on vanilla ships from vanilla factions, giving a place for a player to fight and salvage ships that would otherwise be difficult to secure.
Maybe a fix for this bug could be hardcoding the pirate subfactions to only use vanilla ships, as intended.

Oh and just another thing I should point out that doesn't require its own post - a lot of the Fang Society default ship variants are above the OP limits (easily noticeable via Nexelerin starting player fleets, or the Ship Catalog & Variant Editor's variant validator mission). Maybe you should go over the variants sometime soon. And while we're still on the subject of Fang Society, there's a typo with the blueprint package, which should say shieldless instead of armorless.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2023, 07:43:42 PM by Screech9791 »
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Deageon

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #589 on: May 31, 2023, 08:06:10 PM »


why does fang society still have finches
I thought the base hull was removed during that time you went over removing pointless ships because the finch was just another redundant barely armed civilian ship
and unlike other modded faction's generic transport ships, the finch didn't have the excuse of matching said modded factions' aesthetic styles so they wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb, so the finch didn't even have that excuse for being kept

anyways next patch, remember to get rid of this skin

relax, brother, it's just a single ship in their line up, no need to get demanding about it.
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Deageon

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #590 on: May 31, 2023, 08:20:06 PM »

Hi, first time trying this mod and having a lot of fun with it!

I am a little confused by the Richardson Cannon. The description calls it "surprisingly flux efficient," but it uses 3200 (!) flux per second. It also supposedly does 6400 dps. Are these typos or what?

Thanks!
I think something's really wrong with that thing's efficiency. 0.5 flux per damage on a frag weapon (which has 25% damage against anything except exposed hull, which would be 2 flux per effective damage to shields and probably even worse against armor due to hit strength mechanics) is clearly not "surprisingly flux efficient", that would instead be "so inefficient it'll build up flux for you faster than it does to the enemy's shields".
And good luck actually applying that 6400 DPS with the terrible accuracy and reliance on the enemy not having much remaining armor coverage, because if it's armor is stripped on an entire side, it's probably going to die to other weapons anyways.
I'm not really sure if it actually serves any niche that other large ballistic weapons have, or at least one that's worth the extremely high sustained flux per second. If you're fielding ships with large weapons, then you probably have the DPS to chew through hull anyways, so you won't need an overspecialized weapon for that purpose. And if you want saturated PD, just use a devastator cannon, paladin PD, or any other modded large PD weapon.

Maybe all this is the reason why the weapon's blueprint was left buried in the middle of goddamn nowhere, only being recovered and used by a faction of scavengers known for using literal trash as part of their fleets. I would probably not even notice if the Richardson Cannon gets removed during the next de-bloating spree, and that trash getting removed from the HMI blueprints could probably be a useful buff for the faction's fleets so they won't run out of flux as quickly, as I've been hearing discussion on other sites about how HMI's ships tend to be on the underpowered side (at least regarding junkers/modified mining hulls) and I don't think terrible weapons help with that. (I'd also prefer being able to loot weapons that are actually useful, by the way)

This rant is probably a bit long, so i'll just throw out a TL;DR question: Why is there a terribly flux inefficient large slot fragmentation weapon without the accuracy, range, or hit strength to accomplish anything that other weapons can't do better?
oh and sorry if this post feels a bit harsh, I just really wanted to vent (hah) about how inefficient the Richardson Cannon is. If you want to keep it, find some way to buff it or just rework it.

You know you're not supposed to use frag damage weaponry against shields (and armor, too), right? The frag damage information is very specific in it being the worst of the four damage types to use against both. Thus, you shouldn't be using it when shields are up as you mentioned. It's meant to be a finisher sort of damage, as frag weapons tend to have an impressive DPS that is only fully used when armor is stripped and shields aren't blocking. In this case, the Richardson has absolute batshit RoF and damage which will smash any damaged ships (and batter incoming missiles/low armor fighters) leading to it's strange assault-and-PD role.
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Network Pesci

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #591 on: June 01, 2023, 12:52:50 PM »

I found a couple of fairly insignificant errors.  The Prester John Inner Jump Point appears to be an Ice Giant in hyperspace, I'm fairly sure it's supposed to be a regular jump point.  I don't think Saint Januarius should make that jump point into an Ice Giant gravity well considering SJ has its own gravity well to the right of the black hole in this picture.

https://i.imgur.com/f2USbzw.jpg

Also, the Hazard system has an overlapping jump point and gravity well, Timms is orbiting Chan Huan closely enough that the two points overlap in hyperspace.  Timms has the Gas Giant gravity well instead of the regular jump point graphic too.

https://i.imgur.com/QC9oaBd.jpg
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Screech9791

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #592 on: June 02, 2023, 06:24:02 PM »

-snip-

You know you're not supposed to use frag damage weaponry against shields (and armor, too), right? The frag damage information is very specific in it being the worst of the four damage types to use against both. Thus, you shouldn't be using it when shields are up as you mentioned. It's meant to be a finisher sort of damage, as frag weapons tend to have an impressive DPS that is only fully used when armor is stripped and shields aren't blocking. In this case, the Richardson has absolute batshit RoF and damage which will smash any damaged ships (and batter incoming missiles/low armor fighters) leading to it's strange assault-and-PD role.
I already knew that frag weapons aren't supposed to be used against anything except exposed hull lol
I just don't understand why it'd be worth it to use a large ballistic slot for a finisher role, and if you have a ship that can spare a large slot for a niche task (for large weapons), you can probably just use torpedoes instead, or just the regular weapons you already have on your ship.

I found a couple of fairly insignificant errors.  The Prester John Inner Jump Point appears to be an Ice Giant in hyperspace, I'm fairly sure it's supposed to be a regular jump point. -snip-

Also, the Hazard system has an overlapping jump point and gravity well, -snip-
Probably not a bug, jump points usually display a nearby celestial body if one is close enough when viewed in hyperspace. The overlapping jump point and gravity well probably is.

Anyways, what's with the obsession with having every default variant weapon group set to alternating, including beam weapons which are incompatible with alternating fire mode? Why does every slot on the Category's default variants share a weapon group, despite the turrets having absolutely no overlapping arcs with the other side's turrets and the gun hardpoints? What's with all the shieldless ships having excess capacitors and vents despite them doing nothing? There's so many questions about default variant oddities and so little answers.

Oh, and uh, is it normal for this mod to generate independent fleets consisting almost entirely of those dedicated mining drone converted ships?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2023, 06:33:31 PM by Screech9791 »
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Candlebury

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #593 on: June 03, 2023, 11:06:18 AM »

Spoilery bug report:

Spoiler
It seems like all the salvage fights in the manchester system have been replaced by taskforce safeguard instead of the normal DomRes drones.
[close]
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #594 on: June 03, 2023, 02:07:45 PM »

Spoilery bug report:

Spoiler
It seems like all the salvage fights in the manchester system have been replaced by taskforce safeguard instead of the normal DomRes drones.
[close]

Use the most recent version of HMI.
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Candlebury

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #595 on: June 03, 2023, 02:38:00 PM »

That happened on 0.3.5i
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Drone_Fragger

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #596 on: June 03, 2023, 02:41:57 PM »

Update your starsector, it's a bug that was fixed in RC10
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Gift-of-Life

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #597 on: June 06, 2023, 04:55:42 PM »

Bug report:

Vertice Rifle states its primary role is Anti Shield. Though its Damage type is High explosive doing 200% vs armor, and 50% vs shields.

Is this intended?
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Network Pesci

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #598 on: June 08, 2023, 12:29:13 PM »

All right, I'm getting near the late late endgame of a modded playthrough.  I'm currently level 25 (but with 10 skill points unspent so that my feats of soloing will be with a build possible in vanilla) and I've finally got multiple colonies.  This playthrough has been a little different since I didn't get a free Ionos out of Kamikaze at level 4 like the last few mod campaigns I ran.  I found a blueprint for the Ionos in a research station in the outer reaches, but I haven't found a single Flawless Nanoforge until my recent commission warmongering, so I have not even seen a true Ionos (the much more common Draco Ionos is a joke by comparison, I'd rather have the frigate-like mobility than the firepower increase) in this entire campaign.  Hopefully I'm going to build one later today after I make a couple of posts.

HMI Supervillains Station Fleet Bug
First off, I have a major but tolerable bug with HMI Supervillains.  I'm taking advantage of a Hegemony commission to fight all the factions and take their stuff, and it's the gene-vampires' turn for a beating.  Trying to invade Prester John, when I try to engage the Aegis Of The Dragon the game acts as though I'm docking with the Havensgate space station. 

https://i.imgur.com/8Xbby9k.jpg

I was even able to fight the station by itself, without the Aegis supporting it, even though I'm out in interplanetary space nowhere near the actual location of Havensgate.  Once I win I can even raid or tacbomb or satbomb Havensgate as if I was engaging with the actual planet.  You can dimly see in the background my fleet next to the Aegis.  When the Aegis tries to attack me, it can't actually ever engage with me and I get spammed as though I'm repeatedly clicking on the station.  It's inconvenient but possible to escape by spamming "4" to repeatedly leave the station.

It is possible to actually fight the Aegis (whether I have the skill to pull it off remains to be seen) by fighting a nearby fleet which the Aegis will join the fight to help.  In this picture I can fight the Aegis by attacking the Draco Purifier fleet just above it.

https://i.imgur.com/AmkSdb8.jpg
[close]

I'm going to post my other updated AlfonzoTech soloing builds over in the Covenant topic where they're more relevant, but this has been the workhorse of my fleet from level 8 up until I got my third million and could afford a Nepthys (which I am still using to solo entire Star Fortresses and special bounties).

https://i.imgur.com/bn30bdN.jpg

The Covenant Heavy Blaster adds a little range over the usual limits of Safety Overrides.  Since its projectile is so fast, it hits accurately at nearly 1000, useful for getting the fatal strike in on a retreating frigate.  I like the Ion Cannons in the front slots to hold destroyers and cruisers (or for that matter battleships that I get behind) in place, but I swapped out the frontmost Ion Cannon for a GMFD Ponsom Cannon to kill light fighters more effectively.

There's only one HMI weapon that seems terribly imbalanced in the new version.  You saw me using it on that Ionos build back in .95, but it's even better now that one can build in Armored Weapon Mounts for a fire rate increase.  The Burst Attack Laser is just a little too good.  I understand that it's supposed to be Remnant loot, but considering it's available from two thirds of all the shady guys lurking in dark alleys with battlecruisers in their trenchcoats, it is THE ultimate in PD.  The Heavy Burst Attack Laser has a flux cost that makes up for its incredible power, but the regular Burst Attack Laser is just a Burst PD Laser that ignores the capacitor/magazine mechanic and fires like a Vulcan.  On top of that it is considerably more flux-efficient than a Burst PD Laser or even a Graviton Beam while having three-quarters the DPS of a Heavy Blaster.

Now with this new gameplay mechanic where you can use Story Points to build in Armored Weapon Mounts and Expanded Magazines, the capacitor/magazine mechanic is a joke anyway.  I'm going to show some of the ridiculously awesome things that can be done with it over in the Covenant topic.  As much as I love it, the Burst Attack Laser needs a flux cost increase or a range decrease or something.

(next day edit)  I did get that fleet of vampires, although I'm ashamed to say they destroyed my Nepthys and I had to finish the fight in my Aurora there and deploy the rest of my fleet.  Then I recovered the Nepthys and went and soloed the phase Onslaught bounty and the glass-toothed shark bounty to get my pride back.  I finally did get an Ionos as the absolute last thing I did last night.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 12:50:08 PM by Network Pesci »
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vicegrip

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Re: [0.96a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (New Version Ed., 0.3.5i)
« Reply #599 on: June 11, 2023, 03:53:33 PM »

The Mess Ecstacy description has a small mistake that's preventing the text from showing up. In descriptions.csv the id is listed as "mess ecstacy" rather than "mess_ecstacy", although "ecstacy" is also a pretty rare variation of the much more common "ecstasy" so I'm not sure if that's a typo as well. Also the Mess Colossus is missing a description.
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