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[PyroFuzz]

Can we get pictures and descriptions of the weapons too?

[Gen Waffle]

Hey Alfonz is there any way for me to support you and the mod? I’d like to leave a small token of appreciation. Also are there any plans for a ship with a salvage gantry built in? Feels weird that a miner/scavenger faction don’t have the best of even their own specialized salvage ship.

EDIT:
As a fun mix, I buffed the drone fabricators to deal more damage, but also made them way more expensive and rarer.
Seth sml = base value upped to 3500, damage from 85 to 185.
Seth med= base value upped to 7500. damage from 100 to 220.

You might say that's OP, but these things are still 5 OP and 15 OP respectively, and the drone's spread is slow and misses targets constantly.

edit2:
That was a bad change, the first issue is that the changed damage doesn't affect the keyword card. I think the largest reason for the seth fabricators poor performance is that the AI only fires them at a very short range, and as a pressure tool this should be rectified by increasing the range to a bare minimum of 3000.

Current changes is a the 3500 range, same base value as vanilla mod, and a flight time of 18. for both the sml and med.

They're a very cool niche to pressure ships instead of the Pilum, and can saturate PD.

EDIT:
Reverted all my changes to the seth drones to default vanilla. Will test the weapon more on different hulls first before making changes. I definitely want to make them viable however, and the sentry hull definitely fits it well.

[King Alfonzo]

Good grief Gen Waffle, you've gone above and beyond! Taking into account all of your feedback, I'm releasing an update with the aim of balancing several things.

-Trapdoor fighter now has a description.
-Brilliant now has a bit better flux capacity, turns faster, now lacks the high maintenance hullmod, and has maneuver jets instead of burn drive.
-Scarecrow is now a bit more expensive to maintain, but is now much more meatier, has more flux capacity, has an actual flight deck, 30 more OP, and has maneuver jets instead of instant repair.
-Cockroach and King Roach have their deployment costs and fleet points reduced.
-Shepherd (Heavy) now turns faster, and drones now have long range autocannons and should move quicker to their places.
-Made various other tiny tweaks to other ships that I can't remember.
-Seth Drones now move slightly faster.
-The Mark IV is now noticeably better with expanded magazines.
-Once again attempted to reduce the chance of HMI weapons and ships showing up in markets and fleets. This time I think I cracked it.
-Added two new junker hulls; the Shotglass (A new contender for the Worst Ship in Starsector) and the Greasy (A slow, hardy frigate).

Download HERE.

Compatible with old version.

As for ships with Salvage Gantries; I did have them on the Shepherd (Light) and the Donkey, but very rapidly the ships became too OP, as they were flat out better than a normal shepherd / Salvage gantry for their logistical profile without having much of a drawback.

[Gen Waffle]

I love your mod man. Ofc I’ll put in effort. 

Also that's very fair for the salvage grantry bit. Perhaps a new ship (yeah I know that's asking for a lot).

edit:
Oh. My. Ludd. The Brilliant is so good. For 25 DP you get an effective carrier with a fearsome weapons package. It's one weakness is that it's acts a bit jittery when the AI needs to tank damage on the armour but overall, it's really really good. I think having the ship be powerful is fine as I've never seen the Brilliant on sale in a market, so I'm guessing it's blueprint only.

It's amazing what increasing the turn speed and range for the drones do for the Shepherd. These drones are the lifeblood for the vessel and rightfully so (*cough* missiles aren't that good as primaries *cough*).

More JUNKER SHIPS YEAAAAA. Ships that reward heavy trial and error due to their unique layout and integrated hmod is a flavor and gameplay win.

Edit:
Scarecrow is gooooood. Using my old low flux set, the Scarecrow is the penultimate attrition ship, for 28 DP you get extremely good flux capacity, 253 OP and a decent hull. The hmi scale wing synergizes very well with my current mauler/graviton beam set up, applying constant pressure in a 1v1 very well. The scarecrow is still very very slow, and it's decreased armor makes it very fragile if jumped on. The fact that it's ballistics are situated waaaay forwards also means that the energy weapons in the back should have range upgrades so they're not useless. With all these considered the scarecrow is definitely a ship players should be directly controlling.


Edit:
Have you ever wanted a cockroach just so you can get that balls to the wall boss killing total chad SO build but you just started a new campaign and it's a ways off, well now you have the shotglass. With just two DP and a minuscule 1.75 maintenance cost, you can have a decently strong ship that you can  proudly wave your many dmods on. Recommended to bring reinforced bulkheads ... and that's pretty much it. This ship get's really great for your buck after it's been 'recycled' a few times. Eventually you'll be able to mash in reinforced bulkheads AND a makeshift generator and you're on the home run. I'm loving the pair I have in my campaign fleet atm.

Edit:
The roach king at 20 DP, seems a bit too strong but particularly only for one build. SO. I think having one very strong build amass a load of average other comps is a good reward for the investing junker bonifide. I like this theme of "You thought that I was bad but it was I, the one who hits far higher than you think. You just need to put in the effort."

Edit:
Just lost my fulgent on my campaign run... feelsbad, thing can't run away when it needs to. It served me well (ish).

[Gen Waffle]

A bit of a weird suggestion but rn I feel that the King Roach and Brilliant are a bit too good. I can't help but notice that the King roach and Brilliant are pretty unique ships in how they're built.

Maybe instead of adding the high maintenance hmod, you add a hmod that makes repairs 1.5x more expensive but 2x faster than regular ships? It would fit well for the king Roach (which is a big ship) and the Brilliant (because it's put together in a meaningful way). Just my thoughts. It wouldn't really make sense for the smaller Junker hulls though (and would probably be unneeded on the Junk).

Also if you have the time a few more options in Nexerellin start would be nice, particularly the one where you start with one frigate and it’s a miner cerberus is ... underwhelming. The default start for the hmi should probably be 3 kiner lashers and a Zebu (to emphasize that mining is kind of the hmi’s thing) is what I’m think about. The single Frigate could also the cockroach / greasy. It’d also be cool for a ‘strike team’ start where it’s just 5 pickets/shotglass and a tanker.

[Orcling]

A bit of a weird suggestion but rn I feel that the King Roach and Brilliant are a bit too good. I can't help but notice that the King roach and Brilliant are pretty unique ships in how they're built.

Maybe instead of adding the high maintenance hmod, you add a hmod that makes repairs 1.5x more expensive but 2x faster than regular ships? It would fit well for the king Roach (which is a big ship) and the Brilliant (because it's put together in a meaningful way). Just my thoughts. It wouldn't really make sense for the smaller Junker hulls though (and would probably be unneeded on the Junk).

But the roach king is literal garbage welded together with weapon mounts. Repairing it should be cheaper if anything- Isn't the whole shtick of the Ship that you just weld more garbage ontop of the old 'broken' garbage? That's how it got that big in the first place. I wouldn't call them too good in any situation, just useful bullet sponges. They have no shields and EMP absolutely *** them up and makes them big floating roadblocks that can't really fight back. Sure they soak up a lot of damage and sure you could use Makeshift shields but their Flux Economy is so bad with makeshift shields they'd just constantly overload. Not to mention they're slow as heck.
I think they're fine as they are.

[Gen Waffle]

Hmm I guess you're right, though I've managed to make it very good anti cruiser loadout with them after spending a few days in the simulator. They're really really fun to play with.

Perhaps from a newcomer perspective they're godawful, and I've kinda lost that view since I've played around with the hull for way too long.

Random thought:
For a scavenger / miner fleet I feel the hmi should use more drones. I mean they have the much better blitz borer drone but apart from the shell and bombardment pod, there aren't that much added to their fleets. Their own dedicated carrier would be quite nice.

As a specialty the carrier has the infamous Junker hmod (might be too op idk) but also has a hmod that gives bonuses if drone LPCs are equipped instead of crewed fighters. I'm not sure how the coding around this would work and if it's even feasible to detect properties like this. Maybe equipped Drone LPCs have 100% more speed and lower cooldown of their weapons? (inb4 we can mass spam support bombardment pods). As a  balance point, the carrier may have a lower OP value than most other carriers which is offset by being a Junker and having the drone buff hmod.

I guess you could say I'm just really really in to drone fabricators, and unmanned craft in general. (The Mess had in me in absolute awe (and death) - Heavy Feeder Drone are stronk)

[Hrothgar]

King roach always will be bad against emp and ion damage, as if you want to make it shield-proof against it , it will be big invest in shield mods.


As HMI is basically a scavenge faction, i would love to see some place with HMI-flavor in it. Like some tomb-world with HMI excavation site or something.

[Gen Waffle]

That would indeed be very cool.

Can we increase the burn drive for the Junk from 5 to 6? I don't think it'd really buff it's capabilities in combat since it's already very subpar.

That brings me to some gripes with the Junk as a whole.
- It's clear that the ship is an above averaged armed transport
- It has a powerful hull shredding rapid firing dorsal cannon that melts unshielded frigates with ease.
- It is catastrophically slow, and it's low OP for a capitals hurts it.
- It's really bad if it's undamaged, and gets better with a few dmods.

A small but noticeable buff is to put "reinforced bulkheads" into it's integrated hmods alongside Junker. This would free up 15 OP for the craft and allow the player to skip a usually always taken junker hmod. That and upping the burn drive from 5 to 6 would also be nice.

Thoughts?

I want the Junk to be a Junker capital ships much like the Atlas MK2 but it's 32 DP over the Atlas's 24 which makes a big difference.

[Orcling]

The Junk isn't really meant for combat i think- I mean have you looked at how much Cargo it can carry? A LOT. Plus a crapton of Crew AND fuel.
Sure its got a big scary gun and a lot of gun mounts, but that's just for.. protection? I don't know. I just think of it as a super thicc Atlas with extra much storage space and a few extra gun mounts.
Plus you can always get the +2 burn mod on the Junk, that'll buff it to 7.

[Hrothgar]

You must understand, that 99,99% players seeing any ship in game, will think:

"How can i weaponise it to make more dakka?"

[Gen Waffle]

I actually did see that argument come up a lot of times yeah.

I would like a dedicated capital for the Junker faction though (I mean being able to deploy half a dozen king roaches is great and all).

That said it could be interesting if the ship was designed around more unorthodox weapon systems (*cough* Seth drones *cough*). Also I notice a distinct lack of a seth drone fabricator for a large slot. I wonder what it could be?

Maybe a drone fabricator that fabricates a drone *WITH A GUN*. It'll probably be op but it is a large missile slot, and the cooldown could be like 15 or something. NO WAIT, maybe an EMP drone? It could be quite powerful too...

Also the minor speed buff Alfonz did to the drones is actually sorta noticeable. It's quite nice. Though my sentry's just LOVE going to melee range for some reason and they don't last too long after that, I initially tested a combination of the med frag drone and the smaller kinetic drone fabricators on the sentry hull but the sucky range is well .. sucky. The drones can travel quite far but because they are a missile system, the sentries basically go as close as possible to initiate. You can solve this with a Pilum launcher and setting the small fabricators with autofire. This comes with the obv disadvantage that you're not using the medium drone fabricator (which kinda makes the whole infinite drone factory shmuck null).

I know these drones are meant to pressure the enemy but oof does the sentry not do it well - decent with pilums though. I wonder what would happen if the range was upped to like 4000-5000. The drones definitely can fly that far anyways.

edit:
Hrothgar just explained my week long endeavor into Junker hulls in one sentence.

edit:
Before I go to bed I have some neat scavenger ideas for drones/fighter LPCs and some interesting ideas lol

Breaker Pod:
Probably the fastest drone in the sector, the breaker pod is the result of what happens when you have an actually competent scrapper-made engineer defect from Tri Tachyon to the HMI. The result is probably the finest drone in the sector with quite the underwhelming weapon. Why one would do that ... is up for debate. Something something taxes.

- Very fragile drone but extremely fast drone squad that comes in 6.
- Cost 13 OP
- 4 HK rifle. 1 vulcan per drone.
- Extremely fast replacement rate


Rampage Repair Drone
This drone doesn't aggressively assault the enemy as one may think from the name. Instead the drone is hardwired to suicide into the parent ships hull to release a pod of nanites to repair it. *Does not lower the carrier fighter replacement limit when reapairing*

- 10 OP
- 3 drones
- Healer Nanite.


Hammer Strike Ramming drone.
No Weapons. All Armor. The Hammer Strike does what it says on the tin. It's body is ready.

-15 OP
-8 ridiculously armored and somewhat fast drones
-Continuously uses an extremely short range spike weapon to 'ram' the enemy.
-Frigate killer.


Borer Overhaul mod:
A mod that can only be equipped on Junker ships (Scav or HMI reconstruction/junker). Replaces the default blitz borer drones of the junker ship with an upgraded assault version. If equipped to a junker ship without drones, it will reduce cargo/fuel capacity by 100%, hitpoints/armor by 10% and reduce maneuverability by 20%.

Costs 20/22/24 OP (Frigate-Destroyer-Cruiser/Capital).

Upgraded Borer:
Health points raised to 200, armor raised to 100. Speed decreased by 10%. Squad size is now 3 from 6. Each drone has 3 Mining lasers.

[Hrothgar]

I can donate one of my ideas for ship- a asteroid cannon. Basically a cheap, beggar version of any railcannon, it use a high-speed molten asteroid throw from crude rail cannon, great impact on shield and hull but not on armor.

Because my other ideas, like cloacking device or energy storm projector, are too modern for well, junkers.

[Orcling]

I would like to see asteroid ships. Like, ships that are made inside of mined-out asteroids.
It would kinda fit HMI as they do a lot of mining and hey, why not put an engine on that asteroid and slap guns on it, it's basically a free ship hull.

Spoiler

[close]

Maybe a drone fabricator that fabricates a drone *WITH A GUN*. It'll probably be op but it is a large missile slot

There's another mod that has these but I don't know which I got too many.

[Hrothgar]

I would like to see asteroid ships. Like, ships that are made inside of mined-out asteroids.
It would kinda fit HMI as they do a lot of mining and hey, why not put an engine on that asteroid and slap guns on it, it's basically a free ship hull.

Spoiler

[close]

Maybe a drone fabricator that fabricates a drone *WITH A GUN*. It'll probably be op but it is a large missile slot

There's another mod that has these but I don't know which I got too many.

You mean kamikaze Talon?