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[Iscariot]

I've literally already addressed every single point you've made.

[Nori]

I recall reading a sci-fi book that detailed a photon canon that could reach into space pretty well and it was able to get power directly from the planet core..

Anyway, one thing for projectiles and missiles is that they could be two or three stage weapons, one that gets them past the atmosphere and the next to propel them through space. Obviously more complex and expensive, but that is probably the most viable way other than defenses already in space.

But what I said may have already been mentioned earlier. Forgive me if I missed it and am just repeating what someone else said.

[Upgradecap]

I recall reading a sci-fi book that detailed a photon canon that could reach into space pretty well and it was able to get power directly from the planet core..

Anyway, one thing for projectiles and missiles is that they could be two or three stage weapons, one that gets them past the atmosphere and the next to propel them through space. Obviously more complex and expensive, but that is probably the most viable way other than defenses already in space.

But what I said may have already been mentioned earlier. Forgive me if I missed it and am just repeating what someone else said.

Was the book part in a serie of books called "the traci ganner books"? If so, then i've read it too

[Iscariot]

Has anyone here read the Lost Fleet series of books? Some of the hardest military sci fi I've seen, and a load of fun too.

[Upgradecap]

Has anyone here read the Lost Fleet series of books? Some of the hardest military sci fi I've seen, and a load of fun too.

Am actully looking for some good sci fi books now. How's the book?

[Temjin]

Too much "science" and "realism" in this thread recently, and not enough "fun" or "gameplay."

Depending on the scale of the Starfarer campaign, I doubt controlling a world by force is even really something worth dealing with, and I'd much rather have a lot more in-space content than muck about with battles on land.

[Thana]

Has anyone here read the Lost Fleet series of books? Some of the hardest military sci fi I've seen, and a load of fun too.

They're pretty great, and I introduced a few people on this forum to them some time back, including Alex himself. And yeah, it does go to some effort to be plausible, though that's not to say that there isn't some amount of hand-waving as well. Most importantly, though, it presents an internally consistent paradigm of space combat and uses it to present interesting battles and, more generally, an interesting story.

[Upgradecap]

Too much "science" and "realism" in this thread recently, and not enough "fun" or "gameplay."

Depending on the scale of the Starfarer campaign, I doubt controlling a world by force is even really something worth dealing with, and I'd much rather have a lot more in-space content than muck about with battles on land.

Agreed. Though it would not be bad to hold a complete sector on a iron grip in the later game, as a means to gain reputation, money, but at the same time managing your economy and defending against attacks from other factions, like the cult of lud

[Nori]

Was the book part in a serie of books called "the traci ganner books"? If so, then i've read it too

Nope, haven't heard of that series but it looks interesting. The one I was talking about is Star Soldier, only sold on Amazon.

@Iscariot, I have not, but I like military sci-fi..  

A pretty interesting series is the Spinward Fringe books. Some of them are a bit annoying, but the first book is free so you can get the gist of it.

Another great author is Peter F. Hamilton (beware, all his books are very long and can take a good 100+ pages to really get going, but it is totally worth it).
Fallen Dragon doesn't have any space combat in it (that I recall) but it is a cool standalone book.
Pandora's Star from The Commonweath Saga is a pretty sweet set of books that has some AWESOME space battles in the second and third books...
The Night's Dawn Trilogy is a weird series, but pretty fun and has some really nifty Sci-Fi elements in it... Though it also has some weird supernatural stuff...

And lastly, one of the most gripping and realistic depictions of space combat comes from the Succession Series. Really enjoyed these two books and they are easier to get into than the other ones I've mentioned...

Anywho, that ought to give you some stuff to check out.

[Iscariot]

Has anyone here read the Lost Fleet series of books? Some of the hardest military sci fi I've seen, and a load of fun too.

Am actully looking for some good sci fi books now. How's the book?

They're simple, but they're very consistent, and unlike military sci fi by scum like John Ringo, there isn't a hint of fascistic jingoism to be found. John Geary, the protagonist of the series, is adamantly and absolutely a man of deference to civilian government, even when it schemes against him because he knows that military junta would be worse.

Too much "science" and "realism" in this thread recently, and not enough "fun" or "gameplay."

Depending on the scale of the Starfarer campaign, I doubt controlling a world by force is even really something worth dealing with, and I'd much rather have a lot more in-space content than muck about with battles on land.

As I said, planetary operations need not take the entire planet, and they need not be any more complicated than post battle boarding. If you'd like to see that removed as well to make way for 'more in-space content', then that is your perogative.

As for the too much 'science' and 'realism'-- I didn't bring that to discussion, someone else did. I merely defended ground operations on those grounds, and putting that aside, the contempt for 'science' is something that I really can't respect at all. Paying no service to science in science fiction simply means that science fiction becomes defined by its useless tropes rather than its thematic use of science. It contributes to the homogeneity of science fiction for the future.

[Temjin]

Science fiction is all well and good (I'm a big fan) but I'm playing Starfarer to have fun. I don't want to get involved in ultra-complex logistical calculations or whether or not atmosphere diffracts lasers; I want to customize and fly ships, create a fleet, and blow things up through a combination of tactics, harebrained piloting, and brute force.

I could not care less if the ships make "sense" scientifically or are based on tropes, as long as they behave appropriately and in a fun and reasonably balanced manner I am happy. Regardless of whether they're space fighters or ships of the line.

[Iscariot]

Then let me put it bluntly.

...putting all the sense-making aside. Ground combat is COOL. And troop transports are already coded into the game. Also, who doesn't love the marines? Oorah and all that.

Obviously I can't account for your complacency, but that's my opinion on the matter, and the reason why I started discussing it in the first place.

[Thana]

Science fiction is all well and good (I'm a big fan) but I'm playing Starfarer to have fun. I don't want to get involved in ultra-complex logistical calculations or whether or not atmosphere diffracts lasers; I want to customize and fly ships, create a fleet, and blow things up through a combination of tactics, harebrained piloting, and brute force.

I could not care less if the ships make "sense" scientifically or are based on tropes, as long as they behave appropriately and in a fun and reasonably balanced manner I am happy. Regardless of whether they're space fighters or ships of the line.

Fortunately, having things make sense doesn't have to mean the result isn't fun, it just adds to the fun for some folks. Therefore, this isn't a dichotomy.

[Temjin]

Right.

In the interest of clarity (and because my own brand of lightheartedness doesn't always communicate well on message boards) I am attempting to make two points:

1.) I do not wish to sacrifice balance or fun in the name of complexity and realism. A lot of what I see debated on these forums is placing a heavy emphasis on "realism," which makes me slightly worried that the end result will be less fun. There is a balance to be struck here, but first and foremost this is a "game."

For instance, I find the idea of sleek, fast, yet devastating vaguely plane-shaped space fighters to be "fun," opening up new strategies and avenues of attack while making people make loadout decisions to deal with them. Yet, these fighters are hardly "realistic." Also, I enjoy the possibility that, for instance, low-tech ships would be balanced and able to stand up to high-tech ones, even though this doesn't always work out in the real world. It makes for good gameplay.

2.) This gets into my second point. Too many rules and too many systems can get in the way of enjoyment of the gameplay. I've played a few tabletop wargames and more than a few indie games that fell off the deep end in this regard.

It creates a fantastically steep learning curve that makes it very difficult for people to get into the game, and (more importantly right now) can divide up development time. Plus, it can be just unwieldy.

Really, I'm not "against" ground combat. I just think it's hardly a priority in a game that's so heavily based on space combat, and I would much rather see said space combat be the absolute best and most fun it can be before tacking on additional systems and complexity.

[Alex]

1.) I do not wish to sacrifice balance or fun in the name of complexity and realism. A lot of what I see debated on these forums is placing a heavy emphasis on "realism," which makes me slightly worried that the end result will be less fun. There is a balance to be struck here, but first and foremost this is a "game."

For me, "realism" went out the window when spaceships entered the picture. Internal consistency of the setting is another matter, though, and *that* I'd like to maintain as much as possible.

A certain amount of "realism" does enhance the experience - it's just that I don't think the "realism" can ever truly lose the quotes (since we've already got spaceships, fighters, etc), and so takes a back seat to other considerations.