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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: The Pilgrim's Path (07/19/22)

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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - *hotfix* 4/14/22  (Read 564662 times)

Albreo

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I have told this before but there's really a problem with no D-mods applied regardless of ship quality. Every faction gets access to pristine ships.


Example of my faction with no Heavy Industry.

- New mine skill is a bit too fragile and spawns very far from the target.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 05:05:10 AM by Albreo »
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cptshitacular

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Windows 10, sorry for the late response. Also, the same crash just happened when I tried to engage a Radiant-class ship

just started a new game, ran into a cryosleeper and attempted to engage it. got this error message a few seconds after starting the fight. here's the log for the crash; tried updating lazylib to the newest version but that didn't fix it so i'm out of ideas
Spoiler
45233 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/lazywizard/lazylib/ext/combat/CombatExtensionsKt
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/lazywizard/lazylib/ext/combat/CombatExtensionsKt
   at data.scripts.shipsystems.ai.AO_FluxConverterAI.assessNearbyThreats(AO_FluxConverterAI.java:166)
   at data.scripts.shipsystems.ai.AO_FluxConverterAI.advance(AO_FluxConverterAI.java:104)
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.M$1.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.BasicShipAI.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.lazywizard.lazylib.ext.combat.CombatExtensionsKt
   at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
   at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
   ... 12 more
[close]
I put a message up on LazyLib's thread and the modding thread about this. What is your operating system? I can't actually reproduce this but there is something weird going on the dependency in IDE. It doesn't crash for me though.
[/quote]
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Puff12398

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I'm back again. I am having the same issue with my game crashing when I launch it with a the mod. I can't seem to find the .log file unless it is the jar executable. I may be completely incompetent and just missing something so any help would be great.
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Albreo

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I'm back again. I am having the same issue with my game crashing when I launch it with a the mod. I can't seem to find the .log file unless it is the jar executable. I may be completely incompetent and just missing something so any help would be great.

It's the one that says "starsector" text document 699 KB. Normally the file extension will not show up as default, sorry I forgot. You can change that by messing with the File Explorer a little. On the View tab above, there's a tick box for file extensions on the right hand side.

Wait, I just noticed you're on the wrong game version. The latest version is 0.95a while yours is 0.91a
« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 09:04:11 PM by Albreo »
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Staby_Mcstabman

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@Albreo
Ok gotcha I looked at it more closely and read the key. I will evaluate it over a couple of days.

Overall, thank you very much for doing this! I find it extremely helpful since it categorizes the craft by multiple strengths and weaknesses rather than just giving blanket assertions. For a dev, that is invaluable information.

My initial hot take is comprised of two main counter-points atm:

1) Replacement rate should be taken into consideration or otherwise rolled into the survivability grade and it doesn't seem like it is. (At a first glance.) For instance, the Wasp might be very fragile, but it replaces quickly enough that an F grade is somewhat misleading to its actual impact on replacement rate, if that makes sense. Same thing for E grades for the Spectre, Fang and Imp. In my tests with the Legion, it was actually fairly hard to reduce the replacement rate against Spectres. They could take 80% losses in one pass and be back to full strength in about 10-15 seconds - so not enough time to really reduce the replacement rate much.

2) Some survivability and anti-ship dps grades seem off from my own tests. But, that could be due to differing baseline expectations - which I will address below.

Questions: (Not just for Albreo, these are to determine expectations and context for future tests and will eventually probably result in a poll of some kind.)

  • Should bombers be *mostly* successful with their attack runs if interceptors are not there to protect the ship? Or should they be situationally useful but damaging?
  • How survivable should the baseline craft be against ship weapons? For instance, if one wing is under destroyer fire, how many seconds should the wing last?
  • Should shields be better than armor defensively? Why or why not?
  • Should at least a couple of carriers be required in the players fleet - whether to defend with interceptors or strike with bombers/gunships? Why or why not?
  • What are the most useful types of craft you have used atm and why? What aspect of their design makes them better to use over other craft?

I have a huge BIAS towards Battlestar Galactica and I believe armor should have a higher defensive value than shields. Mostly due to the fact shields seem overpowered on a few ships. Another thing is in BSG and Real-Life passive protection is the last resort. Active protection such as AMM and CWIS (or a giant flak field) are relied upon as primary protection. But shields are more advanced so they should have some benefits over armor such as the ability to regen itself during battle.

On the subject of fighters and bombers, they *should* be key to winning battles. In reality, a fleet that wasn't able to defend itself from air attack was obliterated. The most advanced battleship in WW2 was knocked out of action by a Biplane. I currently love using daggers because they launch their torpedos from a long distance so they don't get caught by enemy interceptors or flak. I feel half of my Xaphos's get knocked out on approach from enemy flak alone which makes them balanced. A fleet should have air supremacy to conduct attack runs to avoid taking heavy damage.

Maybe all you need to change is making an emphasis on interceptors on actually intercepting enemy bombers and/or reducing the firing range on some of the bombers. But a fleet with good AA escorts and some air support should be able to fend off waves of bombers until the carriers run themselves dry.
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Morrokain

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I'm back again. I am having the same issue with my game crashing when I launch it with a the mod.
Wait, I just noticed you're on the wrong game version. The latest version is 0.95a while yours is 0.91a
This is your issue. The mod is likely looking for ship definitions that don't exist in your version of Starsector.

Windows 10, sorry for the late response. Also, the same crash just happened when I tried to engage a Radiant-class ship

Hmm well that's not the operating system I expected because that's what I have and it works. Well, have you tried the latest version of AO? It should be 1.4.0.3. I attempted to fix it in that version by using an alternative implementation of lazylib. Without some kind of input from the author or someone more experienced with IntelliJ's project dependency features, I am at a loss right now.

If you update to the latest version and it still doesn't work or want to keep your current save an not update the AO version, what you can do is remove this crash from happening by going to ship_data.csv and opening it in open office or another spreadsheet editor and changing the ship system for the radiant and guardian from archean_fluxconverter to something else like archean_displacer or archean_damper.

I have told this before but there's really a problem with no D-mods applied regardless of ship quality. Every faction gets access to pristine ships.

- New mine skill is a bit too fragile and spawns very far from the target.
That's really strange I wonder what would cause that? Maybe the no_auto_fit tag or something?? But I was seeing D-mods on faction fleets. Its especially weird because the ship quality seems to indicate otherwise.

I will do some tests on the mine system and that I can probably make some adjustments to. I just don't want to start editing stat sheets just yet.


Thanks for the additional responses on fighter balance. I am reading all of these and will be using them as references while I go through the campaign story. I'll also do a few big sim battles.
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Puff12398

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I'm back again. I am having the same issue with my game crashing when I launch it with a the mod. I can't seem to find the .log file unless it is the jar executable. I may be completely incompetent and just missing something so any help would be great.

It's the one that says "starsector" text document 699 KB. Normally the file extension will not show up as default, sorry I forgot. You can change that by messing with the File Explorer a little. On the View tab above, there's a tick box for file extensions on the right hand side.

Wait, I just noticed you're on the wrong game version. The latest version is 0.95a while yours is 0.91a

Thanks for being patient and helping me out. You were correct, my game version was outdated and updating that fixed all my issues. Appreciate the help, again.
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6chad.noirlee9

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DONT FEEL BAD IVE DONE THINGS LIKE BEFORE WHILE MODDING STARSECTOR.
THANKFUULLY WE HAVE A STELLAR COMMUNITY HERE

caps lock was on and i dont feel like retyping.....lol
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edit: edit: maybe were just falling with style LOL.  make a bubble, make the space in front of it smaller and just fall forward

CorsairZero

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Hey Morrokain, I requested an update to the mod index to show AO as 0.95a instead of 0.9.1a, but the moderator I contacted hasn't change it after a week or so.

I don't know if the mod creator themselves has to make the request or if Alex has to be contacted instead of a moderator, as it's his post, but I'd assume a lot of potential users are skipping AO because it looks like your mod hasn't been updated to the current major release/version. Just a heads up.
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Morrokain

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Thanks for being patient and helping me out. You were correct, my game version was outdated and updating that fixed all my issues. Appreciate the help, again.
Glad that did it!

Hey Morrokain, I requested an update to the mod index to show AO as 0.95a instead of 0.9.1a, but the moderator I contacted hasn't change it after a week or so.

I don't know if the mod creator themselves has to make the request or if Alex has to be contacted instead of a moderator, as it's his post, but I'd assume a lot of potential users are skipping AO because it looks like your mod hasn't been updated to the current major release/version. Just a heads up.
I messaged Alex about it when I released the first beta version for .95 and I never heard anything back so it might have slipped through the cracks. I'll send another message about it after Musashi has been released - especially if I don't hear of any additional bugs in the meantime for the 1.4.0.3
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Albreo

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Talking about additional bugs.

Apparently, the new REDACTED ships can't be piloted by AI cores and can be sold not-so illegally to market. Automate Ship hull-mod is missing.

Secondly, I'm not sure why Salvaging has to be a permanent skill. None of the benefits are long lasting even if the skill point were to be redistributed.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 12:25:17 AM by Albreo »
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Morrokain

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Talking about additional bugs.

Apparently, the new REDACTED ships can't be piloted by AI cores and can be sold not-so illegally to market. Automate Ship hull-mod is missing.

Secondly, I'm not sure why Salvaging has to be a permanent skill. None of the benefits are long lasting even if the skill point were to be redistributed.

Arg! Thanks that is fixed and I'll probably release that fix alongside Musashi.

Salvaging is permanent so that the player doesn't exploit the elite benefit to tech mining until tech mining no longer generates much reward and then respecs skills.
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Albreo

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Quote
Salvaging is permanent so that the player doesn't exploit the elite benefit to tech mining until tech mining no longer generates much reward and then respecs skills.

I was going to do that lol. Generally, the best I would get from a rich tech mining would be a single Alpha core which is honestly not that valuable. Blueprints are also no longer finite with the addition of the academician. And respec from Elite skill also cost a lot of points as a downside but anyway.



Catalyst Bomber's torpedo sprites are a bit off from where they should be.



Kraken Normal version has a behavior problem while the Ludic version doesn't.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 08:39:54 AM by Albreo »
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6chad.noirlee9

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Stoked for the next release!

I really hope that after sashi gets integrated you start messing around with dronelib

I'm most interested in seeing someone create a subsystem mod, and the sooner the pillars of the modding community get into it the sooner someone like me (only not me lol) will make something standalone that can be added to anything!

Anyway do what you want I'm happy to see any progress on AO
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 05:27:10 AM by 6chad.noirlee9 »
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edit: edit: maybe were just falling with style LOL.  make a bubble, make the space in front of it smaller and just fall forward

BreenBB

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I'm most interested in seeing someone create a subsystem mod, and the sooner the pillars of the modding community get into it the sooner someone like me (only not me lol) will make something standalone that can be added to anything!

I thinking about subsystem mod too, sadly I don't know how to create such, make all subsystems as equipment which you can remove and add to another ship, also this can be expanded to reactor, armor, shield and engines, and make all ship hulls basically a hull, low tech, high tech, no matter - its depends on installed equipment.
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