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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - *hotfix* 4/14/22  (Read 722276 times)

NITEGHXST

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #525 on: January 10, 2020, 12:11:49 AM »

*snip* (problem in mod_info.json replace array replacing important custom faction mod files)

Is this a fixable problem?

First of all, thank you for pointing that out!  ;D


Ofcourse no problem! :D I love what the mod does to add to the game, so I wanted to do as much research into what could cause the problem myself as I have worked on mods in teams here and there for other games and know that certain files can't be replaced/overridden without breaking Something.

I hadn't considered that but it makes complete sense that it would cause that behavior. To answer the question, I'm not sure if that is legacy from older vanilla versions or if I just did it as a safeguard back when this mod was strictly a total conversion.

To be honest, I didn't really see differences in ships used compared to vanilla when the files were there. Most notably every faction used Ventures as Cruisers and never anything higher than Low Tech ships. Made for interesting fights as it sometimes would just stalemate and no-one would hit eachother  XD

(I've been trying to ease the constraints as much as I can while preserving the combat balance of the base mod). Let me investigate removing those lines and see if there are any solutions in case that is not an option for some reason.

I noticed that already by having it Nexerelin Compatible. I'll hear it if anything changes, good luck!
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"We are brothers and sisters, all the same, all as one. This Brotherhood stands on group effort.
The more you bring to the table, the more you will be rewarded for your efforts.
Having said that, WHO'S READY TO RID THIS SECTOR OF THE HEGEMONY?!"

~ Rug'ger, TNB General

Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #526 on: January 10, 2020, 01:17:07 AM »

*Updated compatible mods list on main page*

Ofcourse no problem! :D I love what the mod does to add to the game, so I wanted to do as much research into what could cause the problem myself as I have worked on mods in teams here and there for other games and know that certain files can't be replaced/overridden without breaking Something.

Thank you! I really appreciate that and the effort you took to solve the problem.  :)

To be honest, I didn't really see differences in ships used compared to vanilla when the files were there. Most notably every faction used Ventures as Cruisers and never anything higher than Low Tech ships. Made for interesting fights as it sometimes would just stalemate and no-one would hit eachother  XD

Me either- at least from the play testing I was able to get in today. It seems like removing those constraints are completely ok and should hopefully solve the issues everyone is having. These will be included in the next update which hopefully I can get out very soon- just a couple more descriptions to get through- which can take a bit of time as I try to put thought into them and my first drafts are often typo-prone. XD But I will especially rush in this case to provide this fix and the fix to recovery of rare vessels post combat through Lockdown Protocol changes- as has already been brought to my attention.

The power of .9's merging is most impressive.  :)

For specifics:
Replaced files now available for merging with custom factions:

Code
"data\\weapons\\weapon_data.csv",
"data\\hulls\\ship_data.csv",
"data\\hulls\\wing_data.csv",
"data\\world\\factions\\default_fleet_type_names.json",
"data\\world\\factions\\default_ranks.json",
"data\\world\\factions\\default_ship_roles.json",
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 01:23:25 AM by Morrokain »
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NITEGHXST

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #527 on: January 10, 2020, 07:21:57 AM »


Ofcourse no problem! :D I love what the mod does to add to the game, so I wanted to do as much research into what could cause the problem myself as I have worked on mods in teams here and there for other games and know that certain files can't be replaced/overridden without breaking Something.

Thank you! I really appreciate that and the effort you took to solve the problem.  :)


No problem! Least I could do to help you out solve the problem ;) I know how frustrating it can be when you know there's a problem but don't know what is causing it.
And to be honest, also thank yourself and the game. If the way the coding in the files is set up was different, it wouldn't have been as easy to find certain files without even looking online as it is now.
Keep in mind, I never modded in Starsector before XD It does probably help I'm an application developer student though. Got an eye for problems, and I love solving them.


To be honest, I didn't really see differences in ships used compared to vanilla when the files were there. Most notably every faction used Ventures as Cruisers and never anything higher than Low Tech ships. Made for interesting fights as it sometimes would just stalemate and no-one would hit eachother  XD

Me either- at least from the play testing I was able to get in today. It seems like removing those constraints are completely ok and should hopefully solve the issues everyone is having. These will be included in the next update which hopefully I can get out very soon- just a couple more descriptions to get through- which can take a bit of time as I try to put thought into them and my first drafts are often typo-prone. XD But I will especially rush in this case to provide this fix and the fix to recovery of rare vessels post combat through Lockdown Protocol changes- as has already been brought to my attention.

The power of .9's merging is most impressive.  :)


As soon as possible as long as you don't rush yourself hahah. Long glad there's a high chance we got that problem fixed :D
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 07:23:43 AM by TNB Command »
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"We are brothers and sisters, all the same, all as one. This Brotherhood stands on group effort.
The more you bring to the table, the more you will be rewarded for your efforts.
Having said that, WHO'S READY TO RID THIS SECTOR OF THE HEGEMONY?!"

~ Rug'ger, TNB General

dimzki

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #528 on: January 14, 2020, 12:31:40 AM »

i found something weird, not sure if it's from this mod or from Tyrador Safeguard Coalition

there is a weapon called Pulse Cannon MkII with 0 damage

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #529 on: January 14, 2020, 03:09:53 AM »

Hmm, yes that's weird. It looks like maybe it shares the weapon id with a mod that is overriding it... maybe? The weapon is from my mod, though that's not even the correct weapon sprite for that weapon.

Can I get a full mod list? I'll try and troubleshoot from there. Also, have you removed anything from the replace array in mod_info.json by chance? That will help me narrow it down further from recent suggestions for bugfixes.
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dimzki

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #530 on: January 14, 2020, 03:29:18 AM »

Hmm, yes that's weird. It looks like maybe it shares the weapon id with a mod that is overriding it... maybe? The weapon is from my mod, though that's not even the correct weapon sprite for that weapon.

Can I get a full mod list? I'll try and troubleshoot from there.

These are the mods that im using right now:

Also, have you removed anything from the replace array in mod_info.json by chance? That will help me narrow it down further from recent suggestions for bugfixes.

no, i didn't do anything besides changing the totalconversion from true to false

but just to be save, i'll try to redownload the mod and clean install it

also, is it possible to make a compatibility fix for diable avionics ?
their ship and fighter models are just too awesome to miss in any playthrough ;D
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 07:41:00 AM by dimzki »
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henryho96

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #531 on: January 14, 2020, 07:13:03 AM »

Hey there, thanks for the mod. I'm loving it so far but I've got a question. If I run this mod with a compatible mod to add factions or ships, would they be affected by the vanilla changes of having additional launch bays and smaller weapon mount?
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #532 on: January 14, 2020, 02:28:10 PM »

no, i didn't do anything besides changing the totalconversion from true to false

but just to be save, i'll try to redownload the mod and clean install it

Did that help?

I checked and Tyrador Safeguard Coalition seems to be fine as long as you have the latest update (from yesterday I believe).

Also, make sure this line is in the replace array in mod_info.json

Code
	"data\\weapons\\lrpdlaser.wpn",

That's the file that is being merged with the vanilla variant (marking it as a beam instead of a projectile weapon so it doesn't read the correct damage data from weapon_data.csv)

Since replacing files doesn't affect mods, it could be a mod that is changing that weapon. Nothing on the list you gave me seems to, however, though I didn't check most of the feature mods.

The other potential issue could be operating system related. Are you running the game on windows?

Quote
also, is it possible to make a compatibility fix for diable avionics ?
their ship and fighter models are just too awesome to miss in any playthrough ;D

Agreed. It's already compatible actually :) (Though not necessarily balanced since it bases its balance off of vanilla)
--------------

Hey there, thanks for the mod. I'm loving it so far but I've got a question. If I run this mod with a compatible mod to add factions or ships, would they be affected by the vanilla changes of having additional launch bays and smaller weapon mount?

Thanks for the support. :)

Ah, I very much wish that was possible, but alas it is not. The only way to do that would be for me to either get permission from the mod author to rework their balance for Archean Order as a separate standalone release (not sure how many would agree to that) or have the mod authors do it themselves. It is potentially a lot of work depending upon how many assets would have to be rebalanced.

Even if I could somehow proceedurally rebalance existing factions using code in Archean Order, there would be many mod authors who would find that kind of hackery to be aggressive or abusive to their vision of their mod- and so I'd have to set up a list of approved mods, etc, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ask them if you want that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the response was a polite decline. :)
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henryho96

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #533 on: January 14, 2020, 05:48:06 PM »

Hey there, thanks for the mod. I'm loving it so far but I've got a question. If I run this mod with a compatible mod to add factions or ships, would they be affected by the vanilla changes of having additional launch bays and smaller weapon mount?

Thanks for the support. :)

Ah, I very much wish that was possible, but alas it is not. The only way to do that would be for me to either get permission from the mod author to rework their balance for Archean Order as a separate standalone release (not sure how many would agree to that) or have the mod authors do it themselves. It is potentially a lot of work depending upon how many assets would have to be rebalanced.

Even if I could somehow proceedurally rebalance existing factions using code in Archean Order, there would be many mod authors who would find that kind of hackery to be aggressive or abusive to their vision of their mod- and so I'd have to set up a list of approved mods, etc, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ask them if you want that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the response was a polite decline. :)
[/quote]

Ah, I thought as much. While I would like even more fighters, weapons, and ship hulls in-game, it would be horrible to play if the balance was out of wack. I am a big believer in the superiority of fighters after all  ;)
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #534 on: January 14, 2020, 06:11:32 PM »

I will likely add more ships and weapons at some point after the lore updates are finished, so there is that at least.
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dimzki

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #535 on: January 15, 2020, 09:50:50 AM »

Did that help?
i haven't checked, been busy IRL, will do when i have the time to play :(

Also, make sure this line is in the replace array in mod_info.json
Code
   "data\\weapons\\lrpdlaser.wpn",
yes, it's in the json file of your mod, i just checked

Since replacing files doesn't affect mods, it could be a mod that is changing that weapon. Nothing on the list you gave me seems to, however, though I didn't check most of the feature mods.

The other potential issue could be operating system related. Are you running the game on windows?
i'm using windows 10, so I don't think it's the problem, most likely some files got corrupted while downloading since it failed a few times and I had to retry the download...
not sure why, been having problem with dropbox, downloading from other sites seem fine


Agreed. It's already compatible actually :) (Though not necessarily balanced since it bases its balance off of vanilla)
yeah, I've noticed that ships from Tyrador Safeguard Coalition have different values compared to your mod, the maintenance per month, extra fighter bays, it's speed, etc
I've been wondering if it's possible to make a compatibility fix, but after reading your reply to henryho96 about the permission issue, now I know why...

it's a shame really, your mod made much more sense that fighter superiority is lacking in the vanilla and the ship stats need to be adjusted, especially the ship maintenance... although I know that from developer point of view, it's a way for player to sink their credits in, but it doesn't make sense that in an advanced world like starsector, there's no self-sustaining ship for growing food, as for hard materials, they should be able to process them from raw ores mined from asteroids or something, although the Supply Forging mod fixed that issue...
that's just my personal opinion though, I'm sure others have different ones


anyway, this is a very satisfying mod, great vision and very well implemented.

but i do hope that someday, there'll be a compatibility fix for the other faction mods, i really like to play with this mod but im missing the other ships that other mods provided  ;D
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #536 on: January 15, 2020, 02:19:47 PM »

@dimzki

First off, I really appreciate the kind words. Thanks for the encouragement! ;D I will do my best to maintain that kind of quality in future updates. I still have a lot of ideas to try out.

As to your issue, no worries on time constraints I know all about that haha. Just let me know if a clean install doesn't fix it whenever you do. If dropbox is the issue there, I can always host another download on another site.

Faction mods:

Well, here's what I can do. It may take me some time because the next update is priority and its very close to being ready, but I will make a separate thread in the modding subforum that does two things:

1) Explains the details of how I would give credit/a link to their mod should they make a rebalance of their mod as a standalone release - or alternatively give me permission to do it and maintain it while they still would retain credit as the mod author/authors.

2) Explain in very great detail the balancing levers behind Archean Order's combat and the intent/vision behind it. Things like "standard number of guns by weapon size and hull size", "standard scale of maintenance costs by hullsize", "what factors are taken into account when making a new weapon (emp, range, mitigation for things like missiles, etc)"- stuff like that.

The second point is both for current modders as a reference point for how to go about it themselves should they choose that route, and for new modders who would want to make an Archean Order compatible faction mod.

Again, I don't want you to get your hopes up, but at least the information would be out there.
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dantesrb

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #537 on: January 16, 2020, 09:19:20 AM »

Well, I just wanted to play a different challenge, and I installed this over vanilla.... In 10 mins I earned 500k running supplies to same pirate base... Is this meant to play like this?
Can you please add 1 if-then that will goes like this:
If: u exploit
then: u can do it after 1 year...

In practice:
If: I make s good trade run
then: I cant do same run for xxx period of time....

Or is this meant to be a trainer mod?
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #538 on: January 16, 2020, 11:03:58 AM »

Well, I just wanted to play a different challenge, and I installed this over vanilla.... In 10 mins I earned 500k running supplies to same pirate base... Is this meant to play like this?
Can you please add 1 if-then that will goes like this:
If: u exploit
then: u can do it after 1 year...

In practice:
If: I make s good trade run
then: I cant do same run for xxx period of time....

Or is this meant to be a trainer mod?


Hi thanks for your feedback! What pirate base was it that you could exploit this way? And just so I'm clear on the issue, you are saying you cannot do the same thing with pirate bases in vanilla?
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dantesrb

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Nex - Fixes 11/18
« Reply #539 on: January 16, 2020, 01:35:02 PM »

The beginner Derinkuyu mining station. But also there is spam of other good trading opportunities. 
Station keep asking for 200 supplies. There were even double contract... I went to the base with 600 supplies and finished 2 contract with 100k.
It is simple really... this is not a multiplayer game, so u can make boundaries. U cant make machine beat a brain in this, just set a rule that if 1 run is made, there are no other in 1 year or so.... simple as that.
So it will handle it self automatically.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 01:37:18 PM by dantesrb »
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