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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - New REDACTED 8/13/21  (Read 423173 times)

Morrokain

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I seem to be having an issue with this mod

whenever I select archean order in the mod menu it seems to deselect some of my other mods which are supposed to be compatible with the mod

and it only happens when I select archean order, all the other mods don't do that

See the instructions (and be sure to read the warning too) on the main page for disabling the TC behavior of the mod. Look under "Directions to Enable Nexerelin and Other Non-Utility Mods:"
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Albreo

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End game (again)

- I am skeptical with Megalith cost of 50 points. It does have a very high flux buff this patch but it still pretty much a dopped Paragon with double the craft.  46-48 range might be better.
- Can install a converted hangar on Tyrant. Missing phase field mod.
- Those bombers are great again. OP Astral, here I come.
- Tachyon Lance is still super tragic with beam not lock-on to target and instant vent after firing for 0.1ms at long range.
- Hivemind orb still hit my Paragon butt. Maybe it has mine tag so it was able to friendly fire. It should pass over friendly ships as other missiles do. From the description, it should be capable to do that much.
- Executor doesn't have enough OP to deploy both weapons and crafts.
- Ion cannon should not be auto fire at fighters. Its flux cost is so much to be wasted on something that can evade it easily.
- Archean loadout is still prime for suicide. Their ships should all have flux capacity bump up a lot as Megalith so it can fire 1.0 flux/damage weapon properly.
- Pirate fleet size feels optimal this time.
- OMG, thic red Terminator beam makes the damage 3 times higher.
- Medium Thermal and Obliterator cannon have too little different stat-wise where one costs nothing and another cost some flux. Maybe Obliterator should be an explosive instead.
- After taking a look at Remnant Brilliant stat, the flux is quite OP. It's higher than most capital ships.

- Luddic Church's defense stations feel strangely strong. The market size is big, as a result. They have the high ground this playthrough and capture quite a few planets.
- Sindrian would like to purchase some more defense stations of its own. Askonia sector has to be fortified as much as possible.
- Persean league planets in Westernesse are too weak. It's close to Adamantine and took quite a lot of beating to the point of decivilized.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 09:30:02 PM by Albreo »
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Morrokain

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- I am skeptical with Megalith cost of 50 points. It does have a very high flux buff this patch but it still pretty much a dopped Paragon with double the craft.  46-48 range might be better.
Still kind of messing around with it, but yeah definitely could change. I was cautious about it being too strong so went on the high end of deployment.

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- Can install a converted hangar on Tyrant. Missing phase field mod.
Whoops! Thanks!

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- Those bombers are great again. OP Astral, here I come.
Good! Glad bombers feel better. I think I made some Astral changes too, so hopefully its not too OP. I guess we will see.

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- Tachyon Lance is still super tragic with beam not lock-on to target and instant vent after firing for 0.1ms at long range.
Yeah this is something I'm hoping to address. I need to write a weapon script to prevent venting during the burst and lock the target. That may be complicated though and I will probably need some help to do it.

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- Hivemind orb still hit my Paragon butt. Maybe it has mine tag so it was able to friendly fire. It should pass over friendly ships as other missiles do. From the description, it should be capable to do that much.
You know what, I think I forgot about this one. Let me double check. It probably has the wrong collision class or what is happening is that it is timing out (not visible with no engine) before it reaches the target and then it becomes friendly fire. Other missiles do this too, but in this case it is probably too high a range for the AI compared to its flight time. I thought I addressed this already, my fault.

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- Executor doesn't have enough OP to deploy both weapons and crafts.
Thanks, noted. What are you trying to equip? All end tier stuff or mid tier?

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- Ion cannon should not be auto fire at fighters. Its flux cost is so much to be wasted on something that can evade it easily.
I'll see if I can change this without breaking the AI too much.

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- Archean loadout is still prime for suicide. Their ships should all have flux capacity bump up a lot as Megalith so it can fire 1.0 flux/damage weapon properly.
This is in the works. It can be done reliably now because these ships will be hard to get later. Before I was trying to make them more balanced in the players hands, but now that isn't quite as necessary.

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- Pirate fleet size feels optimal this time.
Great! Not sure what I did to be honest. I may have messed with the faction file a bit. I don't really remember.

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- OMG, thic red Terminator beam makes the damage 3 times higher.
Haha though it may hit a couple more plates, that isn't because its wider. I increased the damage. It was low for an energy weapon- even a strike one. Its perfect accuracy makes it really good though, so it may get tuned down a bit. It's now more competitive against higher tier strike weapons.

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- Medium Thermal and Obliterator cannon have too little different stat-wise where one costs nothing and another cost some flux. Maybe Obliterator should be an explosive instead.
That would make it a weird comparison to the Photon Cannon/Excalibur Cannon. Also the bullet would have to change. Technically its a heavy assault weapon (so burst damage and still high sustained) and that's why it costs flux, but the best way to make it more unique would be to add an ion cannon effect to it with a smaller amount of emp per hit. That would actually synergize well with the Sci-Corps doctrine and the burst mechanic. Hmm.. I like it more and more as I think about it.

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- After taking a look at Remnant Brilliant stat, the flux is quite OP. It's higher than most capital ships.
Did you look at the Radiant? It's much higher too. This may change, but it is a current experiment with really hard late game enemies.

Quote
- Luddic Church's defense stations feel strangely strong. The market size is big, as a result. They have the high ground this playthrough and capture quite a few planets.
- Sindrian would like to purchase some more defense stations of its own. Askonia sector has to be fortified as much as possible.
- Persean league planets in Westernesse are too weak. It's close to Adamantine and took quite a lot of beating to the point of decivilized.
I'm glad Luddic Church is a competing player now! That was definitely intended in this update. I'm pretty proud of the lore too. I have some plans to expand that later in some cool ways. As far as Askonia is concerned, I'm not 100% sure how to go about that. Stations are already on most planets and the capital has a high command... maybe more military bases? Not sure. I'll look at Westernesse. It's kind of an outlier system that is otherwise largely ignored and the League has lots of worlds in general, so I kind of like the idea of having the Consortium act as an immediate menace there. We'll see.
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Albreo

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Quote
Thanks, noted. What are you trying to equip? All end tier stuff or mid tier?
Mostly cheap stuff, Spark, Mid-tier weapon, and still unable to fill many slots without compromise flux vent. It doesn't have enough flux to mount energy weapons properly. I might also have to tone down mods as well cus I always use like 8 essential mods.

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Did you look at the Radiant? It's much higher too. This may change, but it is a current experiment with really hard late game enemies.
Radiant is quite easy to kill when it's alone. It's slow and weak against fighters. I can gang it with 2-3 capitals, Tyrant is pretty good at killing it. Brilliant on another hand has strong fighter support and great speed making it hard to 1v1, the ship fighting it can't vent properly as this little pest is super fast and can pursuit aggressively. Lower the speed might reduce its difficulty a bit.

- Sabot secondary projectile range seems to be a little too short. The missile is also a little too slow it never survives close enough to shoot out sabot.

Archean was dead by the way. Not sure why but the trader guild went all out and capture most of their planets while its focus is on Tri-tac lol.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 12:37:28 AM by Albreo »
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ho_gar

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I tried to download the latest version but the Dropbox link is down. the version for 8. is working fine but the 9. is linking to a 404 on Dropbox.
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DatonKallandor

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- Sabot secondary projectile range seems to be a little too short. The missile is also a little too slow it never survives close enough to shoot out sabot.

That's not my experience. Sabots are one of the few missiles that pretty reliably get damage on target even when there's PD present for me.
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Albreo

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Quote
That's not my experience. Sabots are one of the few missiles that pretty reliably get damage on target even when there's PD present for me.
Just to make it clear, I barely test the rest of the missile apart from large mount/high tech one. If you're talking about experience then I think it might be fine I guess, in the early game where Thunderbolt will be very hard to find but I have tested it quite comprehensively and find that it's much worse than Thunderbolt in every situation. Thunderbolt has a much longer secondary projectile fire range which pretty much bypasses most of the PD. Whereas Sabot, its missile is super fragile, any small bullet that hit it obliterate it entirely. I put it in place of Thunderbolts to test it and the result was disappointing. I also tested it on Apogee for a small ship fight and the result is the same. It's the same on a prolonging fight as well where I place the only 4 capitals in test mode in a row.

PS. more test ship would be nice.

My conclusion is SABOT has to be buff in someway either increase secondary projectile range, buff missile HP, buff missile speed, or reduce its mount size from large to medium. Add EMP might not be suitable.

On another hand, Thunderbolt might need its EMP nerf a bit.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 01:23:17 AM by Albreo »
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Morrokain

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Mostly cheap stuff, Spark, Mid-tier weapon, and still unable to fill many slots without compromise flux vent. It doesn't have enough flux to mount energy weapons properly. I might also have to tone down mods as well cus I always use like 8 essential mods.
Hmm, ok. I'll do a comparison to some of the other capitals. More flux or OP shouldn't really break the balance of that ship, anyway.

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Radiant is quite easy to kill when it's alone. It's slow and weak against fighters. I can gang it with 2-3 capitals, Tyrant is pretty good at killing it. Brilliant on another hand has strong fighter support and great speed making it hard to 1v1, the ship fighting it can't vent properly as this little pest is super fast and can pursuit aggressively. Lower the speed might reduce its difficulty a bit.
Are Radiants coming in alone often?? Ugh, sometimes I get really annoyed at how the AI deploys ships. I'll take a look at the Brilliant's speed.

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- Sabot secondary projectile range seems to be a little too short. The missile is also a little too slow it never survives close enough to shoot out sabot.
I tried making it stronger in the past (your exact suggestion actually) and it was too good. It was better than the Thunderbolt because it has higher armor penetration in comparison.

Quote
Archean was dead by the way. Not sure why but the trader guild went all out and capture most of their planets while its focus is on Tri-tac lol.
Trader Guilds, eh? Weird they have the smallest number of colonies. Maybe it was an alliance situation, lol.
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I tried to download the latest version but the Dropbox link is down. the version for 8. is working fine but the 9. is linking to a 404 on Dropbox.
Ah right I'll remove that link it was to an old version. The main download link is the version you should be going for (that old version had some bugs iirc) or the test download link is the newest version of the mod in general if you want to play with the new colonies.
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That's not my experience. Sabots are one of the few missiles that pretty reliably get damage on target even when there's PD present for me.
Just to make it clear, I barely test the rest of the missile apart from large mount/high tech one. If you're talking about experience then I think it might be fine I guess, in the early game where Thunderbolt will be very hard to find but I have tested it quite comprehensively and find that it's much worse than Thunderbolt in every situation. Thunderbolt has a much longer secondary projectile fire range which pretty much bypasses most of the PD. Whereas Sabot, its missile is super fragile, any small bullet that hit it obliterate it entirely. I put it in place of Thunderbolts to test it and the result was disappointing. I also tested it on Apogee for a small ship fight and the result is the same. It's the same on a prolonging fight as well where I place the only 4 capitals in test mode in a row.

PS. more test ship would be nice.

My conclusion is SABOT has to be buff in someway either increase secondary projectile range, buff missile HP, buff missile speed, or reduce its mount size from large to medium. Add EMP might not be suitable.

On another hand, Thunderbolt might need its EMP nerf a bit.
I think I made Thunderbolt more reliable like you describe since it is a rare weapon and I want high tier rare weapons to feel powerful. It is supposed to outclass the Sabot at the cost of more flux/OP. Now, thing is, if there is never a reason to use the Sabot to get that OP or save flux in a build, then the Thunderbolt is probably a little too strong. I want it to be more reliable than the Sabot, but not a guaranteed hit, for instance. And EMP might be too high I think I just slapped on a value there anyway.

Re: Test Ships- that should be fairly easy to add. There is also a random faction battle simulator in the Missions section that has access to a lot of ships- though of course it generates randomly. It's a good way to test out a lot of things quickly though.
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EDIT: Removed the old link and updated mod merging information and warnings.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 02:23:54 PM by Morrokain »
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DrFunTimez69

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Love the mod, great gameplay additions and tweaks, I have no problem with anything in that regard, great job dude. But the portraits? I really want to figure out how to disable them. I'm not really into anime and they all clash with the main style anyhow. Anyway, I'm not good at understanding code, but I can wrap my head around how it works kinda, so I don't know if I'm stupid for trying but I looked in settings.json and mod_info.json but that's not it. If anyone, or the modder, knows how, or if I even can, disable or remove the portraits, please help.
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All yall talk **** 'til you get saturation bombarded, then it gets real ****ing quiet.

Morrokain

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Love the mod, great gameplay additions and tweaks, I have no problem with anything in that regard, great job dude. But the portraits? I really want to figure out how to disable them. I'm not really into anime and they all clash with the main style anyhow. Anyway, I'm not good at understanding code, but I can wrap my head around how it works kinda, so I don't know if I'm stupid for trying but I looked in settings.json and mod_info.json but that's not it. If anyone, or the modder, knows how, or if I even can, disable or remove the portraits, please help.

Thanks for the compliment!  :)

Portraits: Look in the faction files (data/world/factions). Portraits are defined there and you can comment them out using # in front of the line. The portrait names those files reference are found in the graphics folder so you can cross reference there to remove the ones you don't like.
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boom-mug

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You may put Supply Forging on that list and I'd like to talk why Better Colonies seems to crash for players that I believe it's more related to the OrbitalStation.java. Was wondering if you modified OrbitalStation by any chance?

Thanks for the info! I'll add it to the list.

I haven't really had much time to work on this in the last week or two, but I got some free time today so I can take a quick look and see what I can see as far as the crash goes. Do you mean com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.OrbitalStation when you say OrbitalStation? I haven't modified that file, no, but I have overridden the orbital station industry entries in the csv file. Does your mod need those for anything?

*EDIT*

This is the error you are getting, right? Looking into this now.





*EDIT 3*
I was wrong. I wasn't reading the error correctly. Updated info below.

Seems to be related to this line:
      
Code
com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.OrbitalStationGD newOSL = (com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.OrbitalStationGD)market.getIndustry( "orbitalstation");

in:
Code
\Starsector\mods\Better Colonies\jar\src.zip\src\data\scripts\GDModPlugin.java

So, I'll check to see if this tag is missing from my industries entries(they were correct afaik) markets and update here.
That's great, what was the solution? Just change the OrbitalStation entry into something that your csv is correlating an entry to?

This is what I ran into recently.  Did you happen to find a solution?  Both these mods are great and I wish they would work together.
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Morrokain

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This is what I ran into recently.  Did you happen to find a solution?  Both these mods are great and I wish they would work together.

Iirc, I think it ended up being pretty hard to solve. I'll try and work with Techpriest to take another crack at it after I'm done coding Fleet Dialogue.

For the most part, I'm looking at recently requested balance changes in Archean Order until Fleet Dialogue's coding is done- partly because that mod will become a required supporting mod for this one, and I will remove that mod's functionality from this one to save on loading times and give more transparency to those who want to see how each faction responds to the dialogue system (since they will be in spreadsheets instead of hardcoded by the end).
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boom-mug

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Iirc, I think it ended up being pretty hard to solve. I'll try and work with Techpriest to take another crack at it after I'm done coding Fleet Dialogue.

For the most part, I'm looking at recently requested balance changes in Archean Order until Fleet Dialogue's coding is done- partly because that mod will become a required supporting mod for this one, and I will remove that mod's functionality from this one to save on loading times and give more transparency to those who want to see how each faction responds to the dialogue system (since they will be in spreadsheets instead of hardcoded by the end).

Thanks, I'm looking for to it!
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hollow

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now I know this mod is supposed to be a total conversion mod that wouldn't work well with the normal faction mods but I find the imperium
and the coalition to be really underpowered compared to the rest of the ships

to better illustrate the power gap here ill take the Olympus as an example, normal game the rocket would literally wipe half a capital fleet
but in this mod? not even a scratch to the hull if they aren't hugging the ship when it explodes
not to mention the flux of there ships is really terrible compared to the mod ships which makes them underwhelming to say the least.

is there a way I could edit them cause id like to make them viable for actual use not just as trophies in my hanger?

edit: I really love the mod but I would love to make the extra factions viable
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 11:45:47 AM by saif ag »
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DatonKallandor

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It's a TC. Unless you manually redo all the stats for other mods they won't ever be balanced for it.

Incidentally, I ran into the Cryosleeper Guardian in AO for the first time...I was really hoping he got the Remnant treatment and got buffed to be a true end-game threat, but he was really wimpy. Is giving him a make-over planned?
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