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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2 (04/30/22)

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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - *hotfix* 4/14/22  (Read 551000 times)

Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1710 on: January 28, 2022, 03:56:45 PM »

But i thought vanilla did dropped weapons sometimes from derelicts, no? Maybe its not dropping now because it needs to have new weapon Ids pasted somewhere in whitelist too? Or derelicts never dropped weapons? I think it even dropped AI cores sometimes. But i really dont remember.

I'll have to doublecheck the drop_groups.csv to see if perhaps there were changes that I didn't account for in the update. Iirc there are categories there that are less linked to specific objects and more to general categories (such as salvage) so maybe I can add some things in there easily.

I was more referring to having to replace the classes that use those drop groups in order to pull more things from there - but its possible I don't even have to do that to implement something similar to what you are proposing. I don't think it will make the list today, but next time I work on the mod I'll try and remember to take a look!



Ok, brief summary of changes in the current dev version:

 - Super REDACTED are now extremely difficult to fight and better simulate their in-campaign lore and movements.
 - Bombers and gunships have double or more defenses - replacement rates currently remain unchanged
 - All strike craft deal 50% less damage to frigates and 30% less damage to destroyers.
 - Several Archean Order vessels have reversed their flux management theme (they have massive dissipation and very deep flux pools but take a lot of shield damage per hit)
 - High tech capitals as a whole lose a lot less dissipation when shields are raised.

I'm hoping that this will address a few reported issues. For one, legendary craft should last longer in late game in order to better justify their replacement times. Alongside that theme, the general consensus that bombers were a bit too squishy has also been addressed. Without interceptors or anti-strike-craft fighters it will be hard for ships to shoot down bombers before they can return to their carrier to reload and non-strike gunships will be able to withstand more PD and direct weapon fire. These changes should hopefully not obsolete smaller ship classes due to the fact that those ships take less damage from and deal more damage to strike craft. Capitals will have to rely upon their numerous weapons to fight them off.

The other part of these changes will possibly reduce the likelihood that high tech vessels drop their shields while engaging. I'm testing this using capitals for now as I continue to test super REDACTED.

Next, the issue with Archean Order ships being easy for players to fight due to overfluxing from their weapons should be addressed hopefully without unbalancing the ships when in the player hands or in AI vs AI fights. This is probably the most radical change in the dev mode and I'm uncertain as to how it will go. I could have broken the balance pretty hard with those changes so I'll keep an eye out for feedback and continue to test.

So far from tests I think the Megalith is fine, but I may have to nerf the Apocalypse Cannon and its heavy variant. They are too powerful when they can be continuously fire. The question is whether to nerf damage or range.

Finally, a revamped Industry skill line. Salvaging has been removed and some of its effects have been absorbed by other skills. Some parts were not working correctly and have been adjusted to work as intended. One thing I still can't figure out is how to actually reduce the negative effects of D-mods, so assuming I can't get that part of Field Repairs working I will have to change that effect to something else.

Pics:
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Albreo

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1711 on: January 29, 2022, 01:09:16 AM »

Quote
So far from tests I think the Megalith is fine, but I may have to nerf the Apocalypse Cannon and its heavy variant. They are too powerful when they can be continuously fire. The question is whether to nerf damage or range.

I prefer damage reduction. Less damage means less flux and is more manageable by AI.
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Stroichik

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1712 on: January 29, 2022, 07:05:43 AM »

When i referred to Derelicts, i only meant exploration Domain-era Derelicts - probes, ships and motherships. Not every derelicts ships from any battle. Just making sure i`m correctly understood.

If u give fighters a damage reduction against frigates, then those damper frigates packs will be simply unkillable by carrier fleets. Even capital ships have to spend some times to break those damper fields, while using large weapons too. If fighters will be made 50% less usefull against them, that would be a real buff to pirates and nerf to every carrier-fleet faction.

And i see no problem with Apoc cannons, since they are a rare weapons, expensive to craft or buy, plus player needs to upgrade ships to actually withstand flux generation. For example, Heavy obliterator cannons are even more dangerous, since they have huge EMP dmg as well, effectively disabling enemy ships and their weapons, but have a lot less range.
If Apocs will be nerfed, i`ll just switch to Obliterators and disable whole enemy fleets with massive EMP barrage, even if i`ll have to fly closer.

And Apocs dont do nearly as much dmg as a single shot of Atronach Beam weapon. Those are 100% accurate beams of Doom, very good against smaller, faster ships, since Apoc just misses them too much. And also good to burn through big tough enemies, due to huge dmg.

I see no problem with either of those 3 types of weapons, since they serve each their own purpose:
Apoc - long range artillery, inaccurate.
Obliterator - mid range suppression artillery, inaccurate, disables enemy ships.
Atronach - mid range damage-dealer, very accurate, low rate of fire.

I tried replacing Apoc with Obliterator, and due to Obliterator's disabling effect it was even more effective in 1v1 battles. I used Revenant against Paragon, Onslaught and Megalith. Paragon and Megalith had Apocs. And my Revenant with Obliterators still got them, even though he had no officer and had 400 less range on Obliterators compared to Apocs on Megalith and Paragon (their massively larger shields and flux capacitors).

Can't say Apoc is OP, since its just serves its purpose - to shoot far at big slow targets. It doesn't have bigger dmg, since Obliterators have almost same dmg + huge EMP. And single Atronach is 3x times more damaging than Apoc.

To me getting those weapons is just a part of game progression. Since i really could upgrade half of my fleet with those only at around 10 cycles in game. Before that i was only using weapons that i looted. Using those types of guns gives a good range against NPC, but also reduces effectiveness against fighter-swarms and smaller/faster ships (damper fields, phase ships), since artillery-type cannons cant really hit them effectively enough, unless i`m using beams.

Whats the point of having 100+ weapons in game, if there are no good ones (since they will be nerfed). With how slow capitals are, its quite logical for them to have big guns to shoot far.
Nerfing their stats will make some of them simply useless compared to other weapons with larger range. Not to mention u can't put Apoc on Low Tech ships without energy turret slots. Its by default reserved for a higher tech fleets. And what about station defenses if long range cannons will be reduced in range? Or NPC fleets of high-tech factions? It will nerf them too. If Megalith with its speed wont have long range weapon, it will be simply useless in battle.

Capitals should have top-tier weaponry, otherwise whats the point of buy, searching or crafting those rare weapons?

I`d also suggest adding missles some more healthpoints, otherwise they feel quite week compared to how OP PD systems are, not to mention fighters shoot incoming missles too.
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1713 on: January 29, 2022, 07:44:31 AM »

Quote
So far from tests I think the Megalith is fine, but I may have to nerf the Apocalypse Cannon and its heavy variant. They are too powerful when they can be continuously fire. The question is whether to nerf damage or range.

I prefer damage reduction. Less damage means less flux and is more manageable by AI.

Right now it's only 100 less range and I may lower the fire rate a bit and reduce the flux cost that way. I want the armor penetration to stay the same.

@Stroichik

You have some fair points. Rest assured that the weapon will still be living up to its Legendary status. I dont think it's super OP or anything it's just a tiny.bit too strong and even then only on Archean Order and Adamantine Consortium capitals. Maybe the Paragon too since the variants with Apoc cannons generally performed better than all but the Tach Lance and Beam variants.

I did reduce the Obliterator Cannon damage by 100 because it was too much of a competitor. I will make sure that this doesnt mean high tech ships are worse off but I truly dont think it will. Part of the reason for the change is opening up the Apoc cannon for use on more ships.

As for frigates and carriers, I think carriers actually get a buff from these changes overall. The 50% damage reduction is only so that I can make bombers and gunships very strong.

All that said, more testing is needed on a couple of things.

Do you just mean all missiles? Which ones have you tried?
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Stroichik

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1714 on: January 29, 2022, 10:05:02 AM »

I think ballistic weapons should be boosted a bit. High tech ships are my main firepower, and when i compare them to any low tech variants - low tech is always looser, simply because ballistic and missle categories weapons either have not enough kick against shields or accuracy (ballistics) or can't breach PD systems (missles).

Phase orbs bombers btw are simply useless, compared to them taking 32 OP per squad, and incapable of even hitting Megalith shields 90% of time due to PD. Same goes to phase orb weaponry - its interesting and super longranged, but any PD system shoots it with just 1 hit, so its practically useless. Currently i try to use widow launchers as much as i can, simply because they launch a swarm of fast missles which could at least dmg enemy fighters due to sheer amount of them launched. They are also good at hitting enemy hulls, when shields and armor is down too.

I tried several different missle weapons, dont remember their names, though. But generaly all missles have very poor shielding against PD. So when i choose missle weapons i only look at amount per shot and speed stats, otherwise they wont make it to target. Any solo missle is useless, since even frigates can blow it up with 1 PD hit and capitals got lots of PD + fighters, who shoot missles too.

I tried sending 9 squadron of Dagger Torpedo Bombers against Megalith - it looked scary, but only 1 torpedo actually reached shields, and it wouldn't even harmed him, if shields were dropped. Considering that bombers get blown and next volley won't be as strong - its practiacally safe to say, that any missle-based attacks are always inferior to any other type of attacks, sending heavy gunboats with damper fields would've at least distracted Megalith's PD for a few seconds to let missles from main ship to hit him. Only Squall MRM launchers are good, because they have number per burst of widow launcher and EMP dmg, which disables target's systems for a while. Any other missles, that doesn't fly as fast, or shoots less than 8 rockets per volley 95% never reaches target.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 10:32:58 AM by Stroichik »
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Stroichik

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1715 on: January 29, 2022, 11:31:52 AM »

A bit weird to see, how Squall missles are circling around target trying to hit its engines, when it have 360 degree arc. I suppose it follows vanilla anti-engine rocket attack pattern, although its current role is anti-shield. That only gives more chances for PD to shoot them all down.
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1716 on: January 29, 2022, 02:16:46 PM »

I think ballistic weapons should be boosted a bit. High tech ships are my main firepower, and when i compare them to any low tech variants - low tech is always looser, simply because ballistic and missle categories weapons either have not enough kick against shields or accuracy (ballistics) or can't breach PD systems (missles).

Phase orbs bombers btw are simply useless, compared to them taking 32 OP per squad, and incapable of even hitting Megalith shields 90% of time due to PD. Same goes to phase orb weaponry - its interesting and super longranged, but any PD system shoots it with just 1 hit, so its practically useless. Currently i try to use widow launchers as much as i can, simply because they launch a swarm of fast missles which could at least dmg enemy fighters due to sheer amount of them launched. They are also good at hitting enemy hulls, when shields and armor is down too.

I tried several different missle weapons, dont remember their names, though. But generaly all missles have very poor shielding against PD. So when i choose missle weapons i only look at amount per shot and speed stats, otherwise they wont make it to target. Any solo missle is useless, since even frigates can blow it up with 1 PD hit and capitals got lots of PD + fighters, who shoot missles too.

I tried sending 9 squadron of Dagger Torpedo Bombers against Megalith - it looked scary, but only 1 torpedo actually reached shields, and it wouldn't even harmed him, if shields were dropped. Considering that bombers get blown and next volley won't be as strong - its practiacally safe to say, that any missle-based attacks are always inferior to any other type of attacks, sending heavy gunboats with damper fields would've at least distracted Megalith's PD for a few seconds to let missles from main ship to hit him. Only Squall MRM launchers are good, because they have number per burst of widow launcher and EMP dmg, which disables target's systems for a while. Any other missles, that doesn't fly as fast, or shoots less than 8 rockets per volley 95% never reaches target.

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with ballistic weapons being worse than energy weapons or low tech ships being worse than high tech. Low tech armor is no joke and their weapons are far less flux hungry and are generally more damaging when hitting their intended defense type than energy weapons. Low tech will often lose to high tech 1v1, but that is because high tech costs more to deploy and balance is intended to align with the DP value. What role the ship is intended to serve will also factor in the 1v1 engagements and I can generally start a 4v4 or 5v5 using the exact same starting variants of low tech vs high tech and have 3 or more varying outcomes where each tech can win under purely AI control.

It could possibly be that recent changes have brought this out of the refined balance state I had last time I was extensive testing, but iirc I specifically limited balance changes for that reason so that I could get additional feedback. I'll monitor it as I'm testing carrier changes. So far, however, the balance seems good ship-wise.

One of the things I wanted to do with the carrier changes is boost the missile hp so that PD cannot mitigate much of the strike craft based munitions. The primary point of feedback I got from multiple players was that bombers needed to have more of an impact. Gunships seemed like they needed more staying power - especially legendary variants - and since the damage reduction on frigates and destroyers eases the restrictions that had to be placed on carrier based power (since it is so easy to concentrate it at long range), I can hopefully get away with a significant power boost to carrier strikes without making them OP. The general goal is to make them feel more satisfying and reliable without making them too spam-able or always the obvious choice in a fleet composition.

I'll look at missile hp for ship weapons. The thing you have to remember is that they tend to have far longer range, accuracy, and are often flux free compared to other weapons. So unless there is some way to mitigate them they will just be the best weapon category. PD has had some recent changes in efficacy though - so its worth taking a look.

A bit weird to see, how Squall missles are circling around target trying to hit its engines, when it have 360 degree arc. I suppose it follows vanilla anti-engine rocket attack pattern, although its current role is anti-shield. That only gives more chances for PD to shoot them all down.

Since this is not the first time this has come up (its been mentioned as confusing several times I think) I am going to change to weapon to a SRM anti-shield missile system that fires directly at the target. That sort of weapon doesn't currently exist and the Salamander may be too overshadowed by the Squall as an interdiction weapon anyway. The Squall was also too strong against ships without 360 degree shields - especially ones with front shields that cant be redirected to cover the engines.
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Stroichik

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1717 on: January 29, 2022, 06:37:33 PM »

I pitted my Revenant without officer against 2 Elite Onslaughts XIV. And he won. Same with 1v2 Pillagers, even easier.

I put 1 Megalith (no officer) without any Apocs against 3 Onslaughts XIV - 2 Elite ones and 1 Assault. They had bigger range and same speed. Megalith won.

Low tech ships usually have less OP and about twice less Flux capacity. So even if ballistics generate slightly less flux, Low Tech ships have less points to spend on either Flux management or weapon caliber. Plus ballistic weapons are either good against shields or against armor, while energy weapons are equally good against anything + some of them have EMP bonus.

Maybe i haven't found all legendary ballistic weapons yet, but so far i haven't seen any Low Tech that could threaten any of my high tech ones. Except for Legion, but Legion is good all by itself.

---

Yeah i understand that missles have long range and are no longer limited for a battle, but if they can't dmg anything that is not disabled but EMP, then they are practically useless.
So some little tweaks are needed. So far only missles that hit targets - are those that are fired either in huge volleys, maybe even from several launchers at same time, or fired at point blank range (like how AD missle cruisers do with Reaper torps, now thats dangerous, but those cruisers die after first volley(point blank range)). So far its Squall and Widow.

Also, Resonator MRM are actually the only medium volley missles that are also good - i`ve seen them hit targets at least with some realism (not all of them make past PD, but at least its not 1 out of 4). They dropped from Hypershunt Remnant ships.

--

Considering changing Squall's attack pattern, if they are gonna behave like Widow - it`ll be grand. But i think the would also need to have reduced EMP dmg (and/or disabling arc chance), otherwise its too imbalanced with how many of them you shoot.

Actually having anti-engine swarm rockets is nice too, it gives option to control enemy ship's movement.
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Albreo

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1718 on: January 29, 2022, 09:10:25 PM »

The problem with Apocalypse doesn't lie with players but AI. It will shoot those until its flux bottom out and die in a flash due to flux overload. Since AO ship is also paper-thin, it doesn't help out. It's a long-standing issue and he's trying to fix it. But boosting Dissipation and flux pool really going to be hard to balance in my opinion.

Revenant is fast of course it can kite slow stock Onslaughts with ease. For Megalith, my Legion can snipe it with no damage. It's all depends on loadout and your understanding of weapons. And these stock ships tend to be milder at my request else the players won't feel good being able to beat it with their own loadout or being able to make a stronger ship. Due to that, stock ships tend to be filled with a lot of PD so that their damage won't be too crazy. Talking about Obliterator, no, it's still not the strongest weapon. There's another one in plain sight. Super strong when arrange correctly.

Now on to missiles, it is indeed correct that missile has to be fired in huge volley to make it effective. It really won't shine in a 1v1 situation but in a big battle where most ships PD are occupied, these missiles can output insane damage in a single volley. Also do keep in mind that this mod is vastly different from vanilla. Fire support is a thing. The battle is consist of the front line and the backline. It's very distinct in this mod.

Squall, with the current interdiction pattern, is already strong in itself. In a 1v1 situation, it's pretty much the deciding factor by preventing the enemy ship from retreating and also making them rotate awkwardly so that some weapon can't be pointed at you.
Harpoon is my favorite right now. Putting 4 of these on Astral and watching it wreck an entire battle with fire support. Simply MVP in damage contribution.
Atropos can delete a capital ship in one salvo. I put it on my Executor. AI generally knows to use it well when the shield is down.
Thunderbolt is also very useful long-range fire support. Don't have to be fired in salvo at all.
Sabot combined with Ionized Warheads Hull mod is probably the most OP thing you can put on your ship. Perma EMP stun lock. Don't talk about 1v1 you can go for 1v4 instead.
Rupture, good stuff, no flux cost. This is the best missile for Doom.
Shockstorm, very strong shield breaching burst missile. Useful for frigate->cruiser.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 04:13:04 AM by Albreo »
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1719 on: January 30, 2022, 08:32:22 AM »

I pitted my Revenant without officer against 2 Elite Onslaughts XIV. And he won. Same with 1v2 Pillagers, even easier.

I put 1 Megalith (no officer) without any Apocs against 3 Onslaughts XIV - 2 Elite ones and 1 Assault. They had bigger range and same speed. Megalith won.

Low tech ships usually have less OP and about twice less Flux capacity. So even if ballistics generate slightly less flux, Low Tech ships have less points to spend on either Flux management or weapon caliber. Plus ballistic weapons are either good against shields or against armor, while energy weapons are equally good against anything + some of them have EMP bonus.

Maybe i haven't found all legendary ballistic weapons yet, but so far i haven't seen any Low Tech that could threaten any of my high tech ones. Except for Legion, but Legion is good all by itself.
Hmm. I don't know what your builds are, but that is definitely not what I'm seeing in the dev version. I tried those exact tests and the high tech ships get easily demolished within seconds. The Megalith got half the hull of one of the Onslaughts (it had Apocs) but the second use of Combat Capacitors and the Onslaughts finished off the Megalith easily.

Now to be fair, I did a weapon pass last night and made some changes to how a lot of strike weapons work and lowered the dps of the Obliterator and the sustained dps of several other energy weapons.

I also slightly increased the dps of the MarkIX and Devastator and the large ballistic strike weapons deal their damage out over a longer period of time. That was a change I made for a lot of strike weapons. I think strike builds were a little too strong with some weapons able to deal 3000dps upon the point of contact. Now its more along the lines of double or triple the sustained dps for generally about 15 seconds or so. It seems to work a lot more smoothly.

There will certainly be changes to all the battlecarriers with the gunship and bomber buff. They are currently way too powerful and will need some stat adjustments. Legion is probably going to go up to 38-40 dp. Its one strong ship.

Onslaught will probably get a max flux and dissipation boost so that the AI will retreat with it a bit less and let its damage potential be more of a factor.

Quote
Yeah i understand that missles have long range and are no longer limited for a battle, but if they can't dmg anything that is not disabled but EMP, then they are practically useless.
So some little tweaks are needed. So far only missles that hit targets - are those that are fired either in huge volleys, maybe even from several launchers at same time, or fired at point blank range (like how AD missle cruisers do with Reaper torps, now thats dangerous, but those cruisers die after first volley(point blank range)). So far its Squall and Widow.

Also, Resonator MRM are actually the only medium volley missles that are also good - i`ve seen them hit targets at least with some realism (not all of them make past PD, but at least its not 1 out of 4). They dropped from Hypershunt Remnant ships.

--

Considering changing Squall's attack pattern, if they are gonna behave like Widow - it`ll be grand. But i think the would also need to have reduced EMP dmg (and/or disabling arc chance), otherwise its too imbalanced with how many of them you shoot.

Actually having anti-engine swarm rockets is nice too, it gives option to control enemy ship's movement.
Now on to missiles, it is indeed correct that missile has to be fired in huge volley to make it effective. It really won't shine in a 1v1 situation but in a big battle where most ships PD are occupied, these missiles can output insane damage in a single volley. Also do keep in mind that this mod is vastly different from vanilla. Fire support is a thing. The battle is consist of the front line and the backline. It's very distinct in this mod.

Squall, with the current interdiction pattern, is already strong in itself. In a 1v1 situation, it's pretty much the deciding factor by preventing the enemy ship from retreating and also making them rotate awkwardly so that some weapon can't be pointed at you.
Harpoon is my favorite right now. Putting 4 of these on Astral and watching it wreck an entire battle with fire support. Simply MVP in damage contribution.
Atropos can delete a capital ship in one salvo. I put it on my Executor. AI generally knows to use it well when the shield is down.
Thunderbolt is also very useful long-range fire support. Don't have to be fired in salvo at all.
Sabot combined with Ionized Warheads Hull mod is probably the most OP thing you can put on your ship. Perma EMP stun lock. Don't talk about 1v1 you can go for 1v4 instead.
Rupture, good stuff, no flux cost. This is the best missile for Doom.
Shockstorm, very strong shield breaching burst missile. Useful for frigate->cruiser.
After some brief testing last night, I think a boost for some missiles durability isn't out of the question. Its mostly rockets and SRMs that need it the most. I may boost torps a bit but that is a slippery slope too.

I buffed the Hivemind and ran some simulations and while its better at hitting things I'm worried about how strong it will be when massed. 4 of them can grind down capitals unless the Megalith is destroyed so I can imagine that frigate and destroyers will have a very hard time.

I do like the Squall change. It is a very reliable anti-shield/suppression missile at a relatively short range for a missile. As Albreo already said it was too pivotal to a fight before. The presence of the weapon could make 1v1 an instant win against too many ships. I think it should be a lot better now.

Quote
The problem with Apocalypse doesn't lie with players but AI. It will shoot those until its flux bottom out and die in a flash due to flux overload. Since AO ship is also paper-thin, it doesn't help out. It's a long-standing issue and he's trying to fix it. But boosting Dissipation and flux pool really going to be hard to balance in my opinion.

Revenant is fast of course it can kite slow stock Onslaughts with ease. For Megalith, my Legion can snipe it with no damage. It's all depends on loadout and your understanding of weapons. And these stock ships tend to be milder at my request else the players won't feel good being able to beat it with their own loadout or being able to make a stronger ship. Due to that, stock ships tend to be filled with a lot of PD so that their damage won't be too crazy. Talking about Obliterator, no, it's still not the strongest weapon. There's another one in plain sight. Super strong when arrange correctly.

Razor? Also I could see the Excalibur as it hits like a truck at good range and flux efficiency.

Anyway, the Megalith, Revenant and Justicar changes seem really good atm. They are better differentiated from the typical tech theme that Tri-Tachyon uses (very efficient shield and fast) and are now the go to ships for flux hungry weapons but they rely on a very deep flux pool for defense.

Take the Megalith: its shields are still very strong because of the huge flux pool, but despite having enough dissipation to efficiently fire several Apocalypse Cannons it cannot vent its flux build up as quickly as most other capitals. This means that faster capitals like the Paragon can keep enough pressure on the shields to wear it down. In other words, its no longer overfluxed for a cheap win but its not invincible because of that fact. Its shields can be broken with concentrated fire and it has a trade off for its large dissipation in that it cannot recover its shields as quickly once they are stressed.

I still want to test various things more and like I already mentioned I will have to change lots of things now that gunships and bombers are stronger. Even small changes cascade into other areas of balance and these were not small changes. I think it will turn out for the best though.
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Stroichik

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1720 on: January 31, 2022, 01:21:25 PM »

Hmm. i explored half of Sector, but haven't seen any High-danger system. Was this tweaked or am i just unlucky?
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1721 on: January 31, 2022, 02:14:13 PM »

Hmm. i explored half of Sector, but haven't seen any High-danger system. Was this tweaked or am i just unlucky?

You should just be unlucky I dont adjust that at all.
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5ColouredWalker

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1722 on: January 31, 2022, 06:14:31 PM »

Confirming, just unlucky.

As for missiles, while they're theoretically long ranged, I only use them as point blanks. I find that they're too slow, adjusting hp or speed would work.

That said, if you can get them off, they work well as strike weapons, generally dumping more raw damage in then other weapons.


As for high tech vs low, I find reduced flux cap and high flux/damage conversion ruins many low tech ships, but not all.
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1723 on: January 31, 2022, 06:53:17 PM »

I've only gotten through small and about halfway through medium missiles, but I'm making some reliability adjustments and offsetting the net power increase by preventing some missiles from being spammed quite as much. Those have turned into more general assault weapons. The small rapier, annihilator and swarmer are examples. I also increased speed for the rapier and annihilator.

For long range missiles, I can increase hitpoints only if I make them more clip based rather than able to dump a whole salvo at once. So there could either be missiles that can be massively spammed to kill overloaded ships but are easily mitigated or less easily mitigated but less easily spammed. Or, really, something in between.

I also worked on the Thunderbolt aand Hurricane yet again. I cant seem to stay satisfied with those when considering looks and functionality both. Hopefully I've hit a real sweet spot this time but I'll wait for feedback once I release this version.
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Albreo

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1724 on: January 31, 2022, 10:52:12 PM »

I noticed I rarely use any of the small missiles. It seems to stem from the lack of small missile slots on capital class. What do you think about having some of the small ballistic and energy slots become hybrid? Of course, it doesn't have to be available on every ship. On other hull sizes, if the slot is too few, I also won't feel like using the missile much. I would just slap some PD missile, Ion torp or Shockstorm.

Also, to comment on a few missiles that I deem poor:
Hivemind has very poor performance. It's good that it shouldn't be spam able but it also barely hit anything. The bomblet is too fragile and can be easily intercepted by craft in a big fight. Flux cost to performance is also undesirable.
Cloudburst is very problematic. It seems that AI doesn't like to use it much. I have tried various ways to coax it to use. Seems like, the only way is to pair it with other weapons and force fire together. A longer range around 2000 would be preferred.
Hurricane also suffers a lot like Hivemind. It's easily intercepted couple with a slow rate of fire. The point of intercept for this Hurricane should be when it's still whole. Once split it should barely be interceptable. The mini-missile also doesn't look imposing, unbefitting large weapon. If you could make the white trail slimmer plus more prominent and the speed extremely quick. It would look cooler.
Fury flux cost is a tad bit too high IMO. I tried using it a few times and it doesn't worth it.


« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 10:56:39 PM by Albreo »
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