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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - *hotfix* 4/14/22  (Read 728216 times)

Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1650 on: December 23, 2021, 06:47:42 AM »

Thanks, man. it could be a vanilla bug too. I saw a guy doing a lets play saying some fleet spawning crashed him, and he didn't say he was using your mod. weird

I don't see anything so far. I posted about it in the modding thread because the code where this crash is occurring isn't visible to modders and the context is not necessarily obvious so I am making guesses at its functionality. It would be helpful to have some reproduce-able scenarios to go off of. That way I could know the exact stations involved, etc.

If you have a save that you could upload with it being easily reproduce-able that would be really helpful. Or, if not, if you remember the exact type of station you were engaging that caused the crash.

@morrokain A small question. Does the hull-restoration component which was moved to the repair-skill use the same dice-roll as in vanilla, i.e 90% chance every second month to remove a dmod-from a frigate and 75% for capitals/cruisers?

It uses the old implementation from the 0.95a version of Starsector - which I *think* is just a chance to remove a D-mod every 1-2 months. It doesn't differentiate between hullsizes. Would that be preferred?
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ratpizza

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1651 on: December 23, 2021, 07:37:47 AM »

Yeah, I'd prefer that. Doesn't necesarily have to be those exact numbers, I just like it that rules are transparent and that I know what my odds are if something is based purely on chance.
Oh, another question. If I take the repair-skill won't the effect of "reduces negative impacts of hullmods by 50%" take effect immediately? I'm asking cause I have a wolf-frigate with the d-mod "damaged fuel-injector", which increases fuel-consumption by 50% and decreases zeroflux-boost by 10 su. I took the repair-skill from Industry but there's no indication  in any tooltip's that the impact of the d-mod is actually reduced. Am I missing something? Or will it only affect ships which gained d-mods after the skill was taken?
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1652 on: December 23, 2021, 08:00:51 AM »

Yeah, I'd prefer that. Doesn't necesarily have to be those exact numbers, I just like it that rules are transparent and that I know what my odds are if something is based purely on chance.
Noted. Be aware that there is some variation in the timeframe regardless of any additional hullsize chance in this version, but I'll look at the current vanilla version and see what changes are there. It might be more predictable in this version idk. I'll see what I can do when doing the second skill pass, which is also relevant to:

Quote
Oh, another question. If I take the repair-skill won't the effect of "reduces negative impacts of hullmods by 50%" take effect immediately? I'm asking cause I have a wolf-frigate with the d-mod "damaged fuel-injector", which increases fuel-consumption by 50% and decreases zeroflux-boost by 10 su. I took the repair-skill from Industry but there's no indication  in any tooltip's that the impact of the d-mod is actually reduced. Am I missing something? Or will it only affect ships which gained d-mods after the skill was taken?
It *should* be immediate afaik. Its a dynamic stat.

It could be one of two things since it uses:
Code
			stats.getDynamic().getMod(Stats.DMOD_EFFECT_MULT).modifyPercent(id, -DMOD_EFFECT_REDUCTION);
- The first is that it doesn't update the tooltip and yet still works. (Since this uses stats that are a bit trackable, a confirmation of yes or no would help - though I'll try and test it on my own too.)
 - The second is that I've implemented it incorrectly and it doesn't work. So, I need to use setMult() or modifyMult() or something like that or this is a deprecated stat that isn't actually modifiable and I need to remove it completely.
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damatrix16

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1653 on: December 23, 2021, 01:09:53 PM »

Hello, most of my mods are still in the 0.95a-RC15 version, is the link to that version posted somewhere?
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1654 on: December 23, 2021, 01:35:35 PM »

Hello, most of my mods are still in the 0.95a-RC15 version, is the link to that version posted somewhere?

Look under "old files" on the NexusMods site. It should be there.
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kjodice

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1655 on: December 24, 2021, 10:49:05 AM »

Hey all, been using this mod for a while, and for some reason when spawning in a battle the game crashes with a message, FATAL Archean_damper. any ideas?
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neofoxx

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1656 on: December 24, 2021, 10:51:37 AM »

Hi thx for the mod love it so far :)

But can we edit skills value ?
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neofoxx

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1657 on: December 24, 2021, 09:48:23 PM »

But can we edit skills value ?

Have to decompile the archeusTC.jar ? modify the .class and recompile everything ?
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1658 on: December 26, 2021, 08:23:56 AM »

Hey all, been using this mod for a while, and for some reason when spawning in a battle the game crashes with a message, FATAL Archean_damper. any ideas?

Hmm, it could be a change from the new version impacting old scripts. Can you post the error? I'll do a quick check on that system later on and see what turns up.

Hi thx for the mod love it so far :)

But can we edit skills value ?

Have to decompile the archeusTC.jar ? modify the .class and recompile everything ?

Np I'm glad you like it! Yes you would have to decompile the jar and change the scripts. What values were you looking to edit? You should be able to adjust the OP/fighter bay thresholds for fleetwide skills in the mod's settings file if its any of those.
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neofoxx

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1659 on: December 26, 2021, 01:22:42 PM »

Hi thx for the mod love it so far :)

But can we edit skills value ?

Have to decompile the archeusTC.jar ? modify the .class and recompile everything ?


Np I'm glad you like it! Yes you would have to decompile the jar and change the scripts. What values were you looking to edit? You should be able to adjust the OP/fighter bay thresholds for fleetwide skills in the mod's settings file if its any of those.

Yep guessed it thx, i already made some custom edits.

I changed "Special Modifications" skill for more % extra ordinance.

Settings is only for tresholds wich is increasing the maximum cap before loosing effectivness right ?
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Stalkar

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1660 on: December 26, 2021, 03:45:08 PM »

Probably a question that has been asked,aswered/ignored a lot,but bear with me
as far as i can grasp from those lines
Spoiler
> Fighters are smaller, faster, more numerous, and can deal extra damage to ships' weapons and engines
> Smaller weapons, more weapons per ship- designed to mimic a cinematic combat experience inspired from multiple movies and games
> *Compatibility details for adding additional mods: Faction mods are technically compatible and won't crash in the majority of cases, however........
+ list of mods that *SHOULDNT* break balance
[close]
The problem you will run in to with modded factions (if you actually manage to run them,as i remember long time ago i planned on trying this out but half of my mod list was inactive so i ceased the idea) is them being usually? undergunned and have fighter size+balance? issues? but come out on the ~same "dps/DP/OP" or any other comparison or theres more hard changes to vanilla systems,like flux value difference,supply/fuel consumption or general commodities,prices and in that way

Its hard to tell how massive on scale are the changes from base game(which i am not blaming for) to try and find middle ground between running this as "intended experience" and "adding some 'flavor'" without breaking it completely
and yes i intentially ignore possible technical issues like insane RAM usage combined or just outright crashes,currently i am trying to figure out the theoretical part of what i can do
« Last Edit: December 26, 2021, 03:57:27 PM by ShadowStalkar »
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1661 on: December 26, 2021, 05:25:59 PM »

Settings is only for tresholds wich is increasing the maximum cap before loosing effectivness right ?
Right yeah. Bonuses/negative side effects have to be decompiled and recompiled.

The problem you will run in to with modded factions (if you actually manage to run them,as i remember long time ago i planned on trying this out but half of my mod list was inactive so i ceased the idea) is them being usually? undergunned and have fighter size+balance? issues? but come out on the ~same "dps/DP/OP" or any other comparison or theres more hard changes to vanilla systems,like flux value difference,supply/fuel consumption or general commodities,prices and in that way

Its hard to tell how massive on scale are the changes from base game(which i am not blaming for) to try and find middle ground between running this as "intended experience" and "adding some 'flavor'" without breaking it completely
and yes i intentially ignore possible technical issues like insane RAM usage combined or just outright crashes,currently i am trying to figure out the theoretical part of what i can do
Hmm. On the one hand this is sort of subjective considering its hard to narrow down things like "flavor" and such, but I'll do my best to give the full picture of what the mod does so you can make your own determination:

The mod changes many aspects of both the campaign and combat. For one, blueprints are generally rarer and a lot of ships are gated behind military markets. As far as logistics, supplies per month is a LOT lower to allow for ease of exploration in systems, and fuel consumption is lower iirc at the capital level compared to vanilla and higher or the same at the frigate level? Either way, it will feel like a different balance of logistics compared to faction mods. Their ships will not be balanced against the same logistics or combat balance just in general.

Besides relying upon more weapon mounts as well as a separate distribution of mount sizes per hullsize, warships also have the ability to carry fighter wings albeit with a completely different way of balancing carriers vs warships (carriers have cheaper weapons but more expensive wings and warships have cheaper interceptors and fighters but lower replacement rate). So having access to vanilla or faction mod wings will allow those ships to have potentially more firepower than vanilla or mod faction ships would generally have access to. DP is also much different compared to vanilla balance. Capital ships in particular are much less costly to deploy.

Flux and armor values are adjusted to make ships tougher, and venting is more dangerous. Speed is a bit different as well.

Ok, so details aside, what I've heard is that generally the mod's ships are OP compared to vanilla stuff - which is generally the baseline balance for any faction mods.

Pretty much all of the combat aspects of vanilla is changed or rebalanced to some degree *except* for the basic premise of flux sharing the dual role of powering shields and acting as weapon "fuel". In this case, however, many weapons are balanced around no flux cost. Like vanilla, its all designed to work in combination to make combat fun and balanced while hitting the goals of the mod - which is summarized a bit above but doesn't include everything because that would take too long to really dive into.

Aaand all of that said, I've also had reports of lots of people using faction mods and having very enjoyable experiences.

I hope this helps a bit.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2021, 05:32:10 PM by Morrokain »
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Stalkar

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1662 on: December 26, 2021, 09:28:16 PM »

Spoiler
The problem you will run in to with modded factions (if you actually manage to run them,as i remember long time ago i planned on trying this out but half of my mod list was inactive so i ceased the idea) is them being usually? undergunned and have fighter size+balance? issues? but come out on the ~same "dps/DP/OP" or any other comparison or theres more hard changes to vanilla systems,like flux value difference,supply/fuel consumption or general commodities,prices and in that way

Its hard to tell how massive on scale are the changes from base game(which i am not blaming for) to try and find middle ground between running this as "intended experience" and "adding some 'flavor'" without breaking it completely
and yes i intentially ignore possible technical issues like insane RAM usage combined or just outright crashes,currently i am trying to figure out the theoretical part of what i can do
[close]
Spoiler
Hmm. On the one hand this is sort of subjective considering its hard to narrow down things like "flavor" and such, but I'll do my best to give the full picture of what the mod does so you can make your own determination:

The mod changes many aspects of both the campaign and combat. For one, blueprints are generally rarer and a lot of ships are gated behind military markets. As far as logistics, supplies per month is a LOT lower to allow for ease of exploration in systems, and fuel consumption is lower iirc at the capital level compared to vanilla and higher or the same at the frigate level? Either way, it will feel like a different balance of logistics compared to faction mods. Their ships will not be balanced against the same logistics or combat balance just in general.

Besides relying upon more weapon mounts as well as a separate distribution of mount sizes per hullsize, warships also have the ability to carry fighter wings albeit with a completely different way of balancing carriers vs warships (carriers have cheaper weapons but more expensive wings and warships have cheaper interceptors and fighters but lower replacement rate). So having access to vanilla or faction mod wings will allow those ships to have potentially more firepower than vanilla or mod faction ships would generally have access to. DP is also much different compared to vanilla balance. Capital ships in particular are much less costly to deploy.

Flux and armor values are adjusted to make ships tougher, and venting is more dangerous. Speed is a bit different as well.

Ok, so details aside, what I've heard is that generally the mod's ships are OP compared to vanilla stuff - which is generally the baseline balance for any faction mods.

Pretty much all of the combat aspects of vanilla is changed or rebalanced to some degree *except* for the basic premise of flux sharing the dual role of powering shields and acting as weapon "fuel". In this case, however, many weapons are balanced around no flux cost. Like vanilla, its all designed to work in combination to make combat fun and balanced while hitting the goals of the mod - which is summarized a bit above but doesn't include everything because that would take too long to really dive into.
[close]

Aaand all of that said, I've also had reports of lots of people using faction mods and having very enjoyable experiences.

I hope this helps a bit.

that very much gives the vague picture of what i will have to deal with
Spoiler
Ok, so details aside, what I've heard is that generally the mod's ships are OP compared to vanilla stuff - which is generally the baseline balance for any faction mods.
[close]
i  assumed that the changes are making the vague "power number" of ships go up rather then specifically balancing around cos and pros,but if that is not too high, like it sounds, then it should be fine and everything else should not fall behind at least much
i will still might have to do some adjustments on the fly since (like reducing the cost of maints to AO level if its harder to get them,or use CC cheating wizardry) i run like ~half of the factions mods from [index] page so that could be the bane of me
and as much as it pains me i will also probably will have to start over rather then use save-splicing like prior to it
« Last Edit: December 26, 2021, 09:46:55 PM by ShadowStalkar »
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Athos

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1663 on: December 29, 2021, 12:59:06 AM »

I know the mod lists choosing the Adamantium consortium as a starting faction as "hard" but the faction seems to be so strong they are dominating everyone else. I've had no trouble with dealing with other factions and I'm already colonizing. Is there a way to slow the Adamantium consortiums expansion or do I need to kill them myself to do that?
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Update 12/19/21
« Reply #1664 on: January 01, 2022, 07:32:05 AM »

Took some time off for the holidays, but I'll respond to questions and post some changes for discussion a bit later today. :)

Bugs: So far, I'm not finding reproduce-able scenarios of the reported crashes. I haven't exhausted all test scenarios, but any additional context would be appreciated. Unless it is something very specific to the campaign (not likely), the Dampener system seems to work as intended when running the simulator and testing stations aren't causing out of bounds exceptions.

For the station issue, the only thing left that I can really do is start a game and cheat to test every station using autoresolve.
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