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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.5 Big toys  (Read 368896 times)

Dadada

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #240 on: April 17, 2023, 01:46:18 PM »

Quote
I don't have the skills to implement that.
Neither do I, otherwise I'd do it... If I ever start playing around with Java and get into modding, things might change...
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MajorTheRed

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #241 on: May 06, 2023, 11:33:42 AM »

Small announcement for people playing with this mod:

I just realized the 0.96version was released. It will be a good opportunity to do some weapon and ship balancing. Unfortunately I'm away for a few weeks and will not be able to update the mod until early June.

So, if people have any suggestions/comments about some weapons not balanced enough, ships that feel "wrong", duplication of ships vs the new release etc... please feel free to type it down this topic, it will help me move faster toward a new updated version of SGM and will be greatly appreciated!
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Zr0Potential

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #242 on: May 15, 2023, 06:40:30 PM »

Small announcement for people playing with this mod:

I just realized the 0.96version was released. It will be a good opportunity to do some weapon and ship balancing. Unfortunately I'm away for a few weeks and will not be able to update the mod until early June.

So, if people have any suggestions/comments about some weapons not balanced enough, ships that feel "wrong", duplication of ships vs the new release etc... please feel free to type it down this topic, it will help me move faster toward a new updated version of SGM and will be greatly appreciated!

Very gladly! But first of all do we compare SGM to Vanilla or other mods too? Because if we're talking about overlaps there are some cases but here goes my thoughts, based on personal tweaks I've made to my personal bootleg of the mod (for personal use ofc), also this is pretty long so please bear with me :D:

1. Ships:
a. Auspicious/Apex: with the new update upsizing the Apogee's left hardpoint to a medium, the Auspicious is just Apogee but fighter bays instead of missile (something that could be done with the buffed Converted Hangar while keeping the Large Missile slot), without its own niche I think it's best to retire this ship.
b. Foundation: the small turret in the middle is facing backwards which is a bit awkward, maybe flip it to the other side or make it 360 degrees? It could also use another medium mount I think.
c. Era (LC): loses its small missile mount at the front compared to the regular Era.
d. Herder: sprite has two symmetrical bridges on both sides.
e. Copernic & Copernic (A): sprites have what looks like to be fighter bays but no slot.
 
PS. so glad you decided to bring back the Foundation Babel.

2. Weapons:
a. Hive SRM Launcher: as I've mentioned previously, it is severely underwhelming, I can share my stat sheet for what I think is properly balanced for it (to be between Swarmer & Locust).
b. Scorpius LRM: overlapped with the new Pilum Catapult, even the EMP niche, suggest removing it to reduce bloat.
c. David Missile System: personal opinion but the name is boring imo (no offense), and they, true to the lore, are awful and the only ones who'd use these missiles are Pirates (which in many cases it's either cheaper to use Hammers or just upgun to actual Harpoons), might want to try rebranding it or just remove them to reduce bloat.
d. Scattergun: a bit unreliable as a PD and a bit expensive for 5 OPs (for what looks like a makeshift weapon), might try increasing the firing rate so it can cover better and reduce the OP cost to 4.
e. Ice Bomb: very nice gun just think the sprites could use a touch up (feels a bit stretched) and a cooler name.
f. Mining Array: there are a few other mods that have similar or even the same as the Mining Array (at least HMI and BSC), personally I chose the HMI's out of the other options and disabled this in my bootleg to reduce bloat.

3. Systems/Worlds:
a. Byzos: Lepia's placement is too close to Bythinia in range of its patrols which leads to being rapidly decivilized in a few cycles, Bythinia is also lore-wise is a space dump so Scattered Ruins feels a bit lacking, personally I bumped it up to Widespread Ruins.
b. Ivree: Scilly has the size of 5 but the population of 6.
c. Utic: Nepheria being a size 6 independent with a high command and orbital works complete with a corrupted nanoforge strikes me as less than a "second rank industrial planet" lore-wise and more of a regional capital/command center (when the largest indie settlement in Vanilla is Nova Maxios), so I tuned it down by replacing high command > military base and orbital works > heavy industry.

Others:
a. Planet Illustrations are very awesome, would like to see more of them (or again, maybe AI generated illustration could be cool too) to give each planets more distinction.
b. Lots of typos/minor adjustments that could be made in the descriptions, I'd gladly help proofread if you need help with it.

All in all, this is my personal opinion based on my experience as a long time user of this mod, being one of the most Vanilla friendly that is still mantained (RIP DaRa & Missing Ships) and I'm very happy to support the development of this mod in any way I can.

If any others have different experience/POV/idea how to balance/improve, please kindly bring it up and maybe we can cook something up to make it even better. ;D

Edit: added Copernic feedback
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 08:29:27 PM by Zr0Potential »
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MajorTheRed

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #243 on: May 23, 2023, 06:34:44 PM »

Thank you Zr0Potential, really appreciate the feedback!

I started updating the mod, but cant playtest it right now. I agree with you on many points:
1a) I'm not fan the Apogee is already a great warship, it's supposed to be an exploration cruiser, a bit like the Venture... Anyway I want to keep the Auspicious but distinguish it. I was thinking about adding a semi-useful mod like Nav or ECM (to represent converted survey equipment). I'm thinking about either replacing the front large mount by 2 medium energy mounts or a Missile/Energy hybrid. I want to keep the idea of a mixed cruiser/carrier
1b) thanks for noticing
1c) Era and Era(Lc) would probably be revised according to the new autoforge system. To be honest those ships where more interesting when the Assault and Escort Packages existed
1d) thanks for noticing
1e) I might be considering a Filum drone bay fitting with it.

2: a,b,c and f) relate to something i don't like in recent edition Starsector: every faction is a military superpower unable to enforce a no-military public sales. I agree many weapons are bloating the market but that's the intent, I wanted to convey the idea most factions have to deal with second-grade weapons. Actually next version I would like to incorporate less higher-tier weapons availability to promote players using what they can find.
a) to d) agree they need some changes" I started working on that. David might either get an increase in speed or in damage, while keeping the poor tracking.

3a) interesting, I usually don't play a run long enough so that it happens, I was hopping the Heavy Battery would help. I could either increase Lepia pop or decrease population of Bythinia
b) thanks for noticing!
c)So the initial idea is that Utic is a planet big enough to not be bothered by other factions but too small to start it's own empire. I can give a try to your changes, seems good enough to not impact gameplay without removing the feeling of the place.

Art is in the pipes, got some inspirations for a few planets
I don't mind having detailed feedback about description typos, I'm doing my best but doing its best is not always enough.
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Foraven

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #244 on: May 26, 2023, 02:21:46 PM »

I really look forward for your next version. I like that this mod doesn't power creep like many others do.
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Foraven

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #245 on: June 05, 2023, 03:27:43 PM »

Any news on the next version?
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MajorTheRed

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #246 on: June 06, 2023, 03:04:34 PM »

Any news on the next version?

New Version! v1.2.4


Nothing major but just making sure everything seems ok to play under 0.96
-various re-balancing of weapons and ships according to 0.96a
-adjustment ships availability by faction
-added Capital ship availability for continuity

The last item is maybe worth detailing. Currently factions distinguish themselves by tech-level and capital ships. I completely agree with the former but not the later. In a setting where the Hegemony is willing to mount a military operation just to salvage one Onslaught, I don't expect factions nitpicking about what capital they should employ, they would instead use what they got. However, I realized that there is 2 sources of ships and weapons lore-wise: factions already established in the Sector or directly sourced from it when the gates closed (PL, TT) and those coming after (Hegemony and the Sindrian Diktat), which would explain some "compatibility" between them. Example: Conquest and Champion are associated to PL (so pre-gate collapse) so you would not expect it to be seen in the Hegemony fleet even if they are of a "compatible" tech-level. On the over side, the Sindrian Diktat is an offspring of the Hegemony and so would share some capital as long as they are reasonably compatible with the doctrine. As such: the Hegemony can field Pegasus ships sometime and the Sindrian Diktat has some Onslaught in its Navy (but not the Lion's Guard).

TL;DR : each factions deploy more type of capital as long as they fit with their Tech Level and their doctrine:
-Hegemony has a Elite Retribution variant and Pegasus
-Tri-Tachyon might deploy Conquest
-Sindrian Navy has a few Elite Onslaught
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Zr0Potential

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Re: [0.95.1a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.3 QoL
« Reply #247 on: June 06, 2023, 11:35:40 PM »

Aw shucks I spent too long drafting this up a new update came out

Thank you Zr0Potential, really appreciate the feedback!
Glad if I could help in any way I can  ;D
Quote
1a) I'm not fan the Apogee is already a great warship, it's supposed to be an exploration cruiser, a bit like the Venture... Anyway I want to keep the Auspicious but distinguish it. I was thinking about adding a semi-useful mod like Nav or ECM (to represent converted survey equipment). I'm thinking about either replacing the front large mount by 2 medium energy mounts or a Missile/Energy hybrid. I want to keep the idea of a mixed cruiser/carrier
Honestly I think removing the large mount would be a bad nerf imo, unless you're planning on turning it into a brawler-carrier ship like Mora ig? (and tbh I personally prefer the TPC Apex before this one)
Quote
1c) Era and Era(Lc) would probably be revised according to the new autoforge system. To be honest those ships where more interesting when the Assault and Escort Packages existed
Yeah some other ships (like Wardlaw) needs adjustments on their variants too with those being phased out but I personally think those are cool ships and very fit in Vanilla, and very fitting ships to use if you have the Supply Forging mod
Quote
1e) I might be considering a Filum drone bay fitting with it.
Yeah and if I may suggest, the Hegemony variant could be an open slot to represent the militarization
Quote
2: a,b,c and f) relate to something i don't like in recent edition Starsector: every faction is a military superpower unable to enforce a no-military public sales. I agree many weapons are bloating the market but that's the intent, I wanted to convey the idea most factions have to deal with second-grade weapons. Actually next version I would like to incorporate less higher-tier weapons availability to promote players using what they can find.
While I do agree with what you've said, the thing is if the weapons in question doesn't really have a niche or reason to use when you could get a better weapon with even less OPs, it would fell short and only be seen as "fodder guns" (the thing you only find used in Pirate and trade fleets), which is such a waste of potential imo, with some also overlaps with Vanilla
and on Mining Array's case, other mods (which tbf is not your problem, just wanted to let you know that we at least have 3 Mining Arrays-like floating around)
Quote
a) to d) agree they need some changes" I started working on that. David might either get an increase in speed or in damage, while keeping the poor tracking.
Rebalancing is sorely needed yes, and in Scorpius' case, a new niche imo (if you want to keep it around)
Quote
3a) interesting, I usually don't play a run long enough so that it happens, I was hopping the Heavy Battery would help. I could either increase Lepia pop or decrease population of Bythinia
I think the proximity of them is the main problem, less of the defense rating but more of stability since the Church will destroy any trade fleet coming to Lepia, tanking it down leading to decivilization, if I may suggest, follow the example of Vanilla with Salamanca - Qaras and Lacaille Habitat - Kapteyn and give them enough space not to disrupt one another (at least not that much)
Quote
c)So the initial idea is that Utic is a planet big enough to not be bothered by other factions but too small to start it's own empire. I can give a try to your changes, seems good enough to not impact gameplay without removing the feeling of the place.
Glad to hear, from my experience with the changes, it's pretty much seamless gameplay wise, being a notable resupply base and trade goods producer, and also fits in with the lore
Quote
Art is in the pipes, got some inspirations for a few planets
Neato, any more addition to the existing systems? Wouldn't need to be inhabited like Nora with its lore
Quote
I don't mind having detailed feedback about description typos, I'm doing my best but doing its best is not always enough.
It's alright, you'd be surprised at how many mods have these things going (even found a minor one in Vanilla), nothing a little proofreading wouldn't fix, I can send it to you

And again, most of these are based on my very personal opinion, some may share it, some may differ from it, feel free to disagree or add on to it :)
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TehGanker

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Re: [0.96a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.4 Balancing
« Reply #248 on: September 07, 2023, 06:03:58 AM »

Any plan to represent Lotop-bomber ? Something like Cobra-style, single craft wing, slow and shielded, with quarter-ranged Lotop variant.
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Arghy

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Re: [0.96a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.4 Balancing
« Reply #249 on: September 07, 2023, 01:13:27 PM »

Is this mod compatible with other ship mods? I desperately wanted more support ship varieties and i'd love a carrier apogee haha. I'm running the ships and weapons mod.
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Vensalir

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Re: [0.96a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.4 Balancing
« Reply #250 on: September 07, 2023, 02:51:25 PM »

Is this mod compatible with other ship mods? I desperately wanted more support ship varieties and i'd love a carrier apogee haha. I'm running the ships and weapons mod.

I've been running it together with many other ship-adding mods and never had compatibility issues.
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MajorTheRed

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Re: [0.96a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.4 Balancing
« Reply #251 on: September 19, 2023, 03:17:49 PM »

Any plan to represent Lotop-bomber ? Something like Cobra-style, single craft wing, slow and shielded, with quarter-ranged Lotop variant.

Would be a bit over the top considering how the Lotop is already amazing but yeah why might take a look at it!

Is this mod compatible with other ship mods? I desperately wanted more support ship varieties and i'd love a carrier apogee haha. I'm running the ships and weapons mod.

It should be. I have nothing of a programer so everything is really basic and don't involve any major coding. Only potential issues is name conflic for ship and weapons but even then I took care of preventing this kind of problem.
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TehGanker

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Re: [0.96a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.4 Balancing
« Reply #252 on: September 21, 2023, 02:35:16 AM »

Well, main advantage of Lotop's family is total superiority over enemy's PD weaponry, it's can be intercepted in very few conditions. Agreed with "a bit over top", supposed strikecraft should do a less boom then Cobra, but more successfull, if we take estimation of 500 range missile launch and preaiming + 1000 on warhead split. Balance suggestion looks like a bomber's longer refit, though operate and combat range imply few casualties.

But, we definetly need decent, high-tek alternative of Cobra  :)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 02:38:09 AM by TehGanker »
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MajorTheRed

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Re: [0.97a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.5 Big toys
« Reply #253 on: April 06, 2024, 09:29:15 AM »

Version 1.2.5


New versions just for compatibility sake with 0.97. Three news ships that were on the drawing tables for a long time and some adjustements to various ships and weapons. I'm trying to find the right balance between "useful" and "flavourful"

-Three new ships
-Formica and Copernic have been adjusted
-Auspicious got its TPC back
-Cathar got a Individual Fire Control system
-Some balance changes for multiples weapons



Bahamut :
Armored freighter


Pharos :
Frontier waystation


Kuunlan :
Capital mining ship


Not sure what's the future for next version, but I still want to make some arts for the various planets and markets in it.
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ros

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Re: [0.97a] Stop Gap Measure - Ships for Vanilla - v1.2.5 Big toys
« Reply #254 on: June 09, 2024, 11:06:56 PM »

Is the Charon supposed to be such a bad combat ship? Guess it's due to its utility aspect.

I put basic weapons on it; it can barely afford their flux and that only leaves space for one hull-mod.

An Afflictor kills it (but my Shrike beats it). I beat the SIM version with an officer-less d-modded Eradicator.

It's seriously in need of Extended Shields, Auxiliary Thrusters, etc., but it can't afford them.

I'd say that it's needing 50 more OP (let's round that up to 55). But that's just an idea.
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