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Author Topic: About Broadsides  (Read 4802 times)

Sooner535

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About Broadsides
« on: August 22, 2017, 10:41:22 AM »

So I was playing around with O.R.A. Faction in my latest campaign, and I noticed one thing that irritates the heck out of me:

If I hold SHIFT it attempts to align my front to wherever my mouse is.

Usually this isn't a big deal, however with broadside based weapons it hurts (because now I am worrying about where I am facing and when and where to turn while managing flux, shields, special abilities, and aiming). So I suggest a solution:

Holding CTRL down aligns your weapons to the target (ever if they are rear facing) (if there are multiple weapons then it will try and align to best use all weapons)

I think this will help make broadsides a bit more viable, thoughts?
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cjuicy

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 10:50:54 AM »

So I was playing around with O.R.A. Faction in my latest campaign, and I noticed one thing that irritates the heck out of me:

If I hold SHIFT it attempts to align my front to wherever my mouse is.

Usually this isn't a big deal, however with broadside based weapons it hurts (because now I am worrying about where I am facing and when and where to turn while managing flux, shields, special abilities, and aiming). So I suggest a solution:

Holding CTRL down aligns your weapons to the target (ever if they are rear facing) (if there are multiple weapons then it will try and align to best use all weapons)

I think this will help make broadsides a bit more viable, thoughts?
That might help. I also see applications of this for controlling your ship with a PS4 controller.
The one problem I see is that of switching control groups while doing this. It would clash with the command to automate control groups
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Sooner535

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 11:11:25 AM »

You could do something on the PS4 controller like clicking the touchpad for switching fire modes (since the thing has 4 "buttons" inside of it and detectors for movement it is a very versatile button) just click the left side of the touchpad to enter "aimed mode" aka you hold a assigned button and it turns to wherever your cannons are aiming, and then hit the right side to enter "drive mode" then holing the button that aims your ship aligns to your front axis.
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TaLaR

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 12:14:48 PM »

Turn-to-cursor is not very useful for piloting broadside ships due to conflict with omni-shield, even if you leave turrets on auto (Conquest and Odyssey the only notable broadside ships in vanilla). Instead, I use WASDQE, where QE is turning and AD strafing. It is somewhat clunky, but good enough for a Capital.

Though broadside frigates/DEs from mods are truly un-pilotable. Keyboard-only just doesn't allow same speed and precision as normal turn-to-cursor.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:17:39 PM by TaLaR »
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Wyvern

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 12:48:57 PM »

There's a solution for frigates and DEs, though admittedly at the modding level rather than the player piloting level: give them 360 shields (or, if front shielded, at least 270+ shields), so that the player won't need to manage shield angles on top of everything else.
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TaLaR

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 09:18:20 PM »

There's a solution for frigates and DEs, though admittedly at the modding level rather than the player piloting level: give them 360 shields (or, if front shielded, at least 270+ shields), so that the player won't need to manage shield angles on top of everything else.

Not a complete solution either - keeping shield up generally means inefficient piloting. What I really prefer to do is enable it right before incoming hit/burst, and disable after. If shield deployment point is not facing enemy, you can't do it.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 10:36:26 PM »

I still wish shield direction locking would be added...

I know Alex said he tried that in the past, and said it was awkward. But even if it was, still better than nothing and it would also remove a limitation the player has and the AI doesn't. The ability to point shields and weapons in two different directions at the same time.

SafariJohn

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 10:43:38 PM »

What if there was a convenient key that, while held down, would set your current weapon group to autofire (if it isn't missiles or strike weapons or whatever). Then you could switch to controlling your shields instantly and smoothly transition back.

Edit: It would also need to prevent ship rotation I guess
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 10:57:51 PM by SafariJohn »
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Sooner535

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 11:03:11 PM »

There should be a toggle in game that sets omni shields to auto "aim" at incoming projectiles, so you get the same treatment as AI (So same weaknesses). Would be cool to even see it as a hull mod along with instead of a frontal shields converter but also a broadsides shields and a back shield option, I think this would also give moddersmore freedom in ship design since weapons don't have to point in a single direction to be good. Anyways I noticed the crux of this yesterday when playing ORA again, even though I can take a sub par design (like a battleship who main weapons are flak guns) and use it well, all the intricacies of flying a broadside medium range and low armor ship is super crazy (with my main battleship I can just go in shields down and let one side auto fire aegis flaks and man the other side, sometimes fighting 2 Battlecruisers at the same time (ice even been able to hold 2 BSs at bay using my shield carefully). My point being is this:

Broadside ships NEED a few things in order to be viable right now in the current version:
High armor (capable of taking fire from multiple angles without breaking)
Very High Flux Regen (to the point of absurd numbers allowing them to fight as effectively 2 BSs for the price of 1)
And a F key maneuvering jets (or they just simply cannot keep targets long enough)

If they don't have those things then they simply cannot fight a 1v1 on their tier (or even against a tier lower then themselves) because if I have 8 runs facing forward into you and you have 4 guns facing me, imma win. I think broadsides though can be used in 3 separate areas if done right:

Area denial ships (destroyer and higher): these ships can use multi facing weapons to plug holes in fleets that would normally take 2-3 ships, sure if they get focused they can't fight that great but the fact they can counter fighter and missile spam so effortlessly in such a large area is epic.

As a whole new tier of ship (dreadnaught): these behemoths are lumbering giants that take huge supplies and fuel to move, then to top it off can barely turn once in battle, the upside? A well placed dreadnaught can easily push back whole fleets with its huge amount of weapons, flux dissipation, and flux capacity. These ships generally gave 8+ large weapon mounts and 5k+ armor, they are a mainstay defense platform and will provide endless firepower and defense (for those wealthy enough to field them).

Single sided broadsides (or turret mounts) (frigate and higher): another option could be shunting their entire weapon set to a single side, this would give them a way to fight frontal ships while giving them more options (I wonder if it would be possible to create turret mounts that make a hourglass shape, they can shoot left or right by turning their mounts but go offline when trying to shoot forward or back). I think this option is a great one because it kind of gives it a naval feel (which tbh I love since my fav sci-fi (BSG) has fights that are basically sailing ships in space)

Also cherry picking each one is not a bad idea. In the end broadsides would be the most amazing thing I think to add, but they would need careful balance and need to be given better controls so the player isn't fighting his/her own ship while also fighting the enemy.

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Sooner535

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 11:04:54 PM »

What if there was a convenient key that, while held down, would set your current weapon group to autofire (if it isn't missiles or strike weapons or whatever). Then you could switch to controlling your shields instantly and smoothly transition back.

Edit: It would also need to prevent ship rotation I guess

Simply setting them to auto fire is actually a way to fix this in all honesty, Let the AI shoot while you manage shields. However I love manually shooting the weapons lol.
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FreedomFighter

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 01:47:41 AM »

Partial auto-pilot would help with this. Some ship is too bloody fast or clunky to control by yourself so let the AI pilot it and you fire it weapons would be nice.
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TJJ

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 02:55:38 AM »

The control scheme is somewhat backwards at the moment; it burdens the player with the 'boring' shield management, while offloading the fun shooty shooty gun stuff to the AI.

As target selection and aiming is a more engaging task, I'd like to see if reversing the focuses improved gameplay.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 02:57:36 AM by TJJ »
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TaLaR

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 03:41:24 AM »

The control scheme is somewhat backwards at the moment; it burdens the player with the 'boring' shield management, while offloading the fun shooty shooty gun stuff to the AI.

As target selection and aiming is a more engaging task, I'd like to see if reversing the focuses improved gameplay.

It's not quite that bad, you still retain target selection (via R key). And current scheme of auto weapons, manual shield is good for some ships.
You could also say that handling shield is actually more important - punishment for failure is taking armor/hp damage, as opposed to just wasted flux when firing.

Of course, being able, to automate shield instead or both at the same time would be nice.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 03:49:36 AM by TaLaR »
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DatonKallandor

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 08:58:13 AM »

In the absence of changes to the mechanics, Broadside ships is where the usually clunky and inferior asteroids-style controls are useful. For everything else, turn to cursor at all times and strafing is better.

But yeah setting shields to autofire should be a thing.
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xenoargh

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Re: About Broadsides
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 11:30:27 AM »

In the absence of changes to the mechanics, Broadside ships is where the usually clunky and inferior asteroids-style controls are useful. For everything else, turn to cursor at all times and strafing is better.

But yeah setting shields to autofire should be a thing.
It's too bad that we can't really do that via a mod right now; the game will let us force shields to <arc> via code but it will keep trying to move to the cursor, etc.

I've thought about making a special "shield" via Hull Mod that gets around this...
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