Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: New music for Galatia Academy (06/12/24)

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal  (Read 8974 times)

xenoargh

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
  • naively breaking things!
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 11:46:07 AM »

They're not going to be Fighters; they'd be just using the collision class for fighters. 

I understand the arguments about the PD, but (without giving the whole mechanic away) I don't think that tactic will be viable, frankly ;)

I feel like making the sprites that big makes them just another Frigate- that sprite's almost as wide as a Brawler... but I'll take that under advisement; most of us play zoomed out because the game's art scale vs. combat scale is a bit whacky, to be sure, and it might be necessary to feel right.
Logged
Please check out my SS projects :)
Xeno's Mod Pack

MesoTroniK

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1731
  • I am going to destroy your ships
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 03:07:06 PM »

@Meso:  We'll cross those bridges when we get there.  I'm not too worried about these issues until it's working as designed.  I'll probably have an early version out later this week :)

What is this "we" here? I think you are not really understanding this Xeno, the "we" doesn't even involve you. The problems this system will create affects everyone but you. How very generous you are with the time and effort of other modders.

etherealblade

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 08:18:25 PM »

So...uh...why not solve this problem by leaving fighters alone. They are fighters.
SingleShips could be CUSTOM thematic frigates meant to blend your favorite whatever genre into starsector. It doesn't have to stop at frigate size either. I think I mentioned the macross quarter in another thread. The idea is a project that gives fun "unique" thematic ships to factions and can serve as your pilots Main ship. Perhaps find some way to customize these to make them more unique to the player. I'm not sure if its possible to code, But what if the mod had ship parts that you could attach your custom singleships that can be blown off in combat (like the current redacted space stations and RED factions mothership). Anyway trying not to get too offbase here. I think your single-ships Project is just getting started and the concept can be expanded and refined.

If it's a new-system. It is indeed best to make it to where it meshes with other mods and is only Optionally Opt-in.
Anyways...Good Luck.

Logged
Spoiler

[close]

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 12:08:16 AM »

Having piloted quite a bit of mech-like fighters while working on Diable, I don't think this whole "fighter" collision class mechanic is necessary or desirable. It will indeed cause some issues with some modded content, but more importantly it's way too exploitable by a player: You can sit above an enemy ship between it's guns unharmed, looking at enemy ships shooting each other to kill your fighter, and only vulnerable to missiles... So overall I don't think those ships should be fighters but regular super-frigate. I would work just as well, at least for a first release, and would soothe most people concerns.

(Quick note on the wanzers sprites: most of them were made by FlashFrozen, with some touch-up by me when I started animating them. So while I appreciate the compliment, I'm not the one the it should be addressed to)
Logged
 

Harmful Mechanic

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
  • On break.
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 12:34:50 PM »

I had a post queued up, but Tartiflette beat me to it; it seems like this would push optimal play towards using other ships as shields. I think the basic problems with this mod are conceptual, not technical.

Faction super-frigates are a lot more interesting to play than fighters, having tried most of the fighters out in dev mode, and the need to avoid collisions is a bonus, not a deficit, there. Part of the fun of ships with unique systems or built-in weapons is that they force you to learn new ways to play the game within the same basic limitations as other pilotable ships. Removing those limitations also removes a lot of the fun of mastering those ships.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 05:02:51 PM by Harmful Mechanic »
Logged

xenoargh

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
  • naively breaking things!
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2017, 01:52:02 PM »

Quote
I think the basic problems with this mod are conceptual, not technical.

Faction super-frigates are a lot more interesting to play than fighters, having tried most of the fighters out in dev mode, and the need to avoid collisions is a bonus, not a deficit, there. Part of the fun of ships with unique systems or built-in weapons is that they force you to learn new ways to play the game within the same basic limitations as other pilotable ships. Removing those limitations also removes a lot of the fun of mastering those ships.
Well, leaving aside that this isn't like piloting a Fighter in Dev (among other things, FF is a thing) you may be right, it might encourage that kind of "turtle" play. 

We'll just have see how abusable the mechanics really are.  Removing a mechanic like that if it seems a little too powerful is hardly crippling to the concept; it's just one more interesting idea and there are plenty of ways to compensate, like making the ability a System, a Shield toggle that costs Flux, etc. etc.
Logged
Please check out my SS projects :)
Xeno's Mod Pack

xenoargh

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
  • naively breaking things!
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 04:37:15 PM »

It's been a slow week for modding, but I've finally gotten around to spriting the next concept; a heavy Hegemony mech.  It has a heavy burst-fire rocket launcher on the right arm, on the left, a rapid-fire SMG using bursts, and a pair of LMGs in the head for close encounters.  It's all WIP right now, so things may move / change etc. as I get closer to Done.

I think the next one I'll try will be a classic missile-mech for the Independents.  I should be able to get the rest done and integrated before the end of the weekend :)

« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 04:38:57 PM by xenoargh »
Logged
Please check out my SS projects :)
Xeno's Mod Pack

Nicke535

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
  • Degenerate Core
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2017, 07:52:41 AM »

So i tried kitbashing some of the sprites i used in my old "Vass" project into a mech, and i feel it went pretty well (the sprites were originally HELMUTs, from the Spiral Arms Thread):
                       
 Full Mech       Mech "Hull"     Autocannon     Beam Cannon

I implemented it ingame as a "superfrigate", and it felt surprisingly fun to drive. I also whipped up a sort of "bullet time" mechanic, to really give that "dodges bullets like nothing"-feeling.

xenoargh

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
  • naively breaking things!
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2017, 08:59:44 AM »

That's pretty cool :)
Logged
Please check out my SS projects :)
Xeno's Mod Pack

xenoargh

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
  • naively breaking things!
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2017, 01:19:48 AM »

OK, I've gotten the first SingleShip built; I'm still doing some code integration, cleanup and testing, but it all looks good thus far.

I think that the big secret is that these guys need to have relatively short range for their high-powered weapons, so that they're high-risk / high-reward glass cannons; if they have long enough range to kite, they're a little too super-powered, due to their movement patterns.  But they're inherently fun to play.

Getting the AI to use them well is also going to be challenging, as they're very fragile; a human player can deal with their issues pretty easily, but my current AI?  Not so much.
Logged
Please check out my SS projects :)
Xeno's Mod Pack

Deshara

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1578
  • Suggestion Writer
    • View Profile
Re: SingleShips - Collective Project Proposal
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2017, 02:36:54 PM »

I think the name you're looking for is Corvette, which are the smallest rated size of warship, anything smaller than a Frigate can count as one. Specifically you'd be looking at LCS's, which are small warships not meant to leave coastal waters (IE are dependent on other vessels & facilities to maintain it long-term because it by definition can't be far from a port or a mid-ocean support point/vessel), frequently just big enough to be able to house a single small-to-medium helicopter (for anti-submarine warfare), which in SS terms translates to just large enough to house a single-shuttle bay & therefor not be class as a fighter (which needs to dock to transfer supplies), but LCS's don't have their own designation (it stands for Littoral Combat Ship) and outside of the context of them explicitly being used within the coast are colloquially just referred to as corvettes
Logged
Quote from: Deshara
I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then
Pages: 1 [2]