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Author Topic: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?  (Read 4397 times)

Squish Cat

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8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« on: July 27, 2017, 09:29:32 AM »

NPC fleets are overflowing with ECM now.  Its gotten to the point where I am now surprised to not be at a constant -20% weapon range thanks to this.  So its time to do something about it.  The ECCM Package hull mod had a 50% reduced ECM effect added to it with the 8a patch.  Does anyone know if the reduced ECM effect is fleet wide, or does that only affect the ship that the ECCM package is installed on?
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Kissa-mies

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 09:41:41 AM »

ECCM only affects the ship it is installed on
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Megas

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 09:46:07 AM »

Get Electronic Warfare 1!  You will not regret it.  It is the best defense against enemy ECM.  (If you are already at level 40 and out of skill points, my condolences.)  Your experience is why I call it #1 perk in the game.

I wish I could answer your question about ECCM though, although it seems someone else just answered that.
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Squish Cat

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 11:09:41 AM »

Get Electronic Warfare 1!  You will not regret it.  It is the best defense against enemy ECM.  (If you are already at level 40 and out of skill points, my condolences.)  Your experience is why I call it #1 perk in the game.

I wish I could answer your question about ECCM though, although it seems someone else just answered that.

Thats unfortunate.  This kinda puts that skill into the "required" category now.  Sadly, I do not have any spare points.  At least not in this play through.

Quote
ECCM only affects the ship it is installed on

This kinda makes me wish there were dedicated specialty fleet wide ECCM ships now.  At least for the purposes of countering ECM.  A way to counter ECM without needing to fit every single ship with ECCM or getting the now must have skill to counter this problem.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 11:18:47 AM by Squish Cat »
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Megas

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 11:46:15 AM »

Electronic Warfare 1 is not the only perk that can be said to be must-have.  Loadout Design 3 is great for everyone, but while Loadout Design 3 is just a very fun and powerful bonus, Electronic Warfare 1 is simply keeping up with opposition.  Fleet Logistics 3 and all of Fighter Doctrine are more universally useful perks that the enemy may have too.
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zeno

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 03:09:08 PM »

I find that Electronic Warfare doesn't really do anything in the endgame.

The player is almost always encouraged to go for quality over quantity in fleet composition, as otherwise we'd be losing ships every battle and the attrition really adds up.  AI fleets don't really have this problem because it can just spawn more ships, so it can afford to throw low quality frigate/destroyer swarms at you over and over.

In my games, this generally means the AI fleets can field way more ECM by spamming smaller ships.  With the fleet size setting maxed out, endgame battles tend to have the AI fielding 40%-50% ECM, whereas I can barely break 25%.  This is before Sensor Jammers are taken into account.

At this point I might as well skip Electronic Warfare altogether as the range penalty caps out at 20% anyways, which I'll suffer regardless of ECM defense.  ECM and ECCM hullmods costs way too much OP for what they do, especially since ITU (which is cheaper) exists and directly counters enemy ECM anyways.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 03:14:11 PM by zeno »
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Megas

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 04:58:14 PM »

For endgame, I deploy my entire fleet, or up to DP limit, in part because most of my ships are clunkers (due to being unable to buy most ships and restoration for recovered ships is too expensive) armed with relatively common weapons, and the enemy (other than pirates) has superior hardware (no lasting damage, some have rare and powerful weapons).  I often match numbers with the enemy, and if they have ECM, it is roughly even, give or take few percent on either side.  If the enemy does not have ECM, I have the max of -10% to enemy shot range, and I can completely ignore sensor objectives.

I tried to deploy fewer ships, but I often take casualties when I try to be cheap with deployment.  Better to deploy all, steamroll the enemy, and preserve resources by killing the enemy before they do too much damage (and cause me to lose resources by heavier damage and/or replacing lost ships that would not be lost had I deployed all and kill everyone fast).
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:00:07 PM by Megas »
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zeno

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 05:28:10 PM »

Out of curiosity, are you playing an industry build?  I don't see how it can otherwise work out.

For me I use mostly cruisers escorting a couple of capitals, which means I'll never reach the same ECM rating as AI fleets even if I max out DP.  But it also means almost every ship will be piloted by a lvl20 officer and it's very rare to lose a ship.
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Megas

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2017, 06:26:19 AM »

Out of curiosity, are you playing an industry build?  I don't see how it can otherwise work out.
For my first game, completely unskilled and no commission.  (EDIT:  During 0.8, when bounties and Remnants did not use ECM.)

Next game, same as above, except with skills useful for everyone:  Combat Endurance 1, Evasive Maneuvers 1, Helmsmanship 3, Fleet Logistics 3, Coordinated Maneuvers 1, Fighter Doctrine 3, Electronic Warfare 1, and Loadout Design 3.

Combat Endurance 1 for more peak performance for my flagship.
Evasive Maneuvers 1 for faster turning.
Helmsmanship 3 for my flagship to keep zero-flux speed bonus while fighters are engaged.
Fleet Logistics 3 for +15% CR for all.
Coordinated Maneuvers 1 for more speed for my fleet.
Fighter Doctrine 3 to get Converted Hangar hullmod (at 2) and keep fighters somewhat relevant in endgame fights.
Electronic Warfare 1 to defend against enemy ECM.
Loadout Design 3 for more much-needed OP.

More SP unspent because I cannot decide where to put them.  More skills than points.  Too few SP in the game.  Must-take skills eat about half of my SP.

Ships are whatever I recover off the ground, since I cannot buy most ships until endgame (after I build rep with Independents).

P.S.  My endgame combat fleet is primarily cruisers (among Dominator, Eagle, Falcon, Heron, and Mora), plus one or two capitals (usually Legion and Paragon), maybe some Drovers, plus Tempest (to enable pursuit-and-autoresolve against any fleet after battle), plus Hyperion and/or Afflictor.  The bigger ships that are not normally carriers will often get Converted Hangar.  Fighters dominate 0.8 because they force fights and partially counter the AI's cowardice.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 09:32:25 AM by Megas »
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Squish Cat

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2017, 02:56:14 PM »



Ships are whatever I recover off the ground, since I cannot buy most ships until endgame (after I build rep with Independents).


How do you typically go about building rep with the Independents?  This is assuming you're not just using agents from the Nexerelin mod.
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Megas

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Re: 8a ECM/ECCM Package - 50% Reduced ECM Effect?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2017, 03:25:25 PM »

The slow way of grinding bounties, after trade and other means no longer work.  That is why I say by endgame after I hit the level cap.
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