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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.75c ( Hotfix 3 )  (Read 568905 times)

hydremajor

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #390 on: September 21, 2022, 01:58:56 PM »

We have a water planet called Favonius. What if for every 2 months you can pretend you're salvaging in the waters for hidden treasures ( RNG on watcha get ) ? For a small fee of course. We have a canon reason to why there's ship wrecks everywhere after all.

Hmmm

What if there was multiple options of fees to pay ?

you can cheap out and greatly reduce the chance of getting something really nice

OR if you're really determined to get something specific, just fork over almost excessive amounts of cash on it to increase the chances of getting something nice, but it'd still be random...
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #391 on: September 21, 2022, 03:57:54 PM »

here all of you are pretending someone died and made you king....

I can't speak for anybody else, but that's not my intention in responding at all.

Ultimately it's up to an individual artist to manage their own emotions and set their own boundaries around their work. Sometimes the easiest way to do that is just to go fix a balance issue; other times you have to stand firm and say 'no, sorry, I'm doing it my way'.
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Brainwright

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #392 on: September 21, 2022, 05:29:59 PM »

So I'll just say, half of y'all are acting like you didn't read BadDragn's posts literally two pages ago

The fact is it's just so irrelevant.  The balance scheme he referred to just doesn't exist in Starsector.  Good ships in SS cheat.  Scarab has Temporal Shell.  Paragon has advanced targeting core.  Onslaught has integrated ballistics, almost always guaranteeing enough room for Heavy Armor.  Monitor has Flux Shunt.

SS combat isn't balanced off of raw stats.  It's balanced off of weapon behavior and the ability to vent flux.  Raw armor values are kinda pointless, because the important part for a capital ship is whether it can shrug off a reaper torpedo or hellbore shell.  If it can't, it needs to keep those shields up, which means it's always going to flux out.  The raw flux stats you need to get away from this dynamic are extreme.

Hell, the Sunami is a cruiser with about 500 ground support.  Sound op?  Well, it's 20 supplies a month, it should damn well be better than 4 Valkyries.  It's the only ship that might let you invade a Nex home planet without going over the ship cap, but it still requires quite a bit of finagling.   All of the other support mechanics scale geometrically, so you can say the cruiser sized ground support ship is just keeping up with vanilla standards.

Most of the ships in this mod are fairly straightforward and easy to understand.  There aren't so many special tricks, so yeah, their flux stats might be a bit higher.  They play like Diable Avionics except with standard battleship support.  So yeah, a little stronger.
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tinytrinket100

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #393 on: September 21, 2022, 05:34:41 PM »

Just a small note that the Isenoria with the Raffelsya bomber is incompatible with realistic combat and causes a fatal null crash.
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TimeDiver

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #394 on: September 21, 2022, 05:50:22 PM »

Just a small note that the Isenoria with the Raffelsya bomber is incompatible with realistic combat and causes a fatal null crash.
Given how thoroughly Realistic Combat brute-force overwrites many, many established Starsector gameplay mechanics in favor of its own, your issue is something to bring up in that mod's thread, not this one.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #395 on: September 21, 2022, 07:35:26 PM »

The fact is it's just so irrelevant.  The balance scheme he referred to just doesn't exist in Starsector.  Good ships in SS cheat.  Scarab has Temporal Shell.  Paragon has advanced targeting core.  Onslaught has integrated ballistics, almost always guaranteeing enough room for Heavy Armor.  Monitor has Flux Shunt.

SS combat isn't balanced off of raw stats.  It's balanced off of weapon behavior and the ability to vent flux.  Raw armor values are kinda pointless, because the important part for a capital ship is whether it can shrug off a reaper torpedo or hellbore shell.  If it can't, it needs to keep those shields up, which means it's always going to flux out.  The raw flux stats you need to get away from this dynamic are extreme.

xkcd 386 post, I recommend you do not read it
First off, "SS isn't balanced off raw stats" is a funny thing to say when you just used the examples of HBI (basically free OP) and Heavy Armor, and go on to talk about venting flux, all of which are in fact raw stats.

Second, "balanced off of weapon behavior and the ability to vent flux" - to consider just one case, what exactly do you think the whole thing about Reisen (M)'s four large + four medium ballistics running off better-than-Radiant flux stats (for 3/4th the DP and no Automated Ship restrictions, I might add) is?

Three:
Quote
Raw armor values are kinda pointless, because the important part for a capital ship is whether it can shrug off a reaper torpedo or hellbore shell.  If it can't, it needs to keep those shields up, which means it's always going to flux out.
This is just plain false in the way implied; if it weren't, shield shunt Onslaught would not be a thing.

It turns out that sufficiently high capital armor and hull is indeed what you need to shrug off Hellbores and at least not die immediately to Reapers (assuming your PD doesn't stop them, which turns out to be a lot less common when you can throw vulcans and flaks at the problem). Armor is the thing that lets you lower your shield even when under fire without promptly dying, up to the point of venting under fire if necessary; in fact, I would say that this is the purpose of armor for most ships.

As for "always going to flux out": again, misleading at best. When you're a capital that can run multiple large and medium ballistics at flux neutral, it's much, much harder to flux out because you can use your entire, massive, capacity bar to absorb damage, and vent it off that much faster after it does build up, and enemy ships have a much harder time closing enough to use their weapons to begin with. Almost 30k effective shield HP that can be active vented in under 17 seconds (stripped Reisen(M) and Rillaru(SP) both do this) is a hell of a drug. Even if you aren't anywhere close to flux neutral, the difference between fluxing out in 20 seconds of combat instead of 10, or 40 instead of 20, requires no description.
[close]

But you don't have to read any of that. Instead, here's an extremely simple test.
1v1 autopilot stock Reisen(M) standard variant versus sim Onslaught; the question is not "who wins?" or even "how much hull damage does the Reisen take?" but "knowing only what was said in this thread, does anyone have to think for longer than three seconds to guess who wins?"

(Before you say it: The point is not that 1v1 sim is a realistic matchup or anything of the sort, the point is that regardless of any theorycrafting we might post here, everyone immediately understands what 'better dissipation than Radiant' means for a ship.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 08:52:53 PM by Histidine »
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Gabloc

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #396 on: September 21, 2022, 08:19:43 PM »

The balance scheme he referred to just doesn't exist in Starsector. 

I think any ardent believer of the vanilla Starsector ship/fleet design can't not find a satisfying solution in this series of balancing debate, as essentially, UAF introduced a High-Tech faction with long-ranged, flux-efficient ballistic weapons and strong carrier-fighter support. The real issue is never to coerce someone to stick with the HighTech/Midline/LowTech system, but to think whether some design choices can be improved under the new framework introduced by the author.

I personably think you have gone to another extreme by claiming 'SS combat isn't balanced off of raw stats'. For me, at least the speed of the capital ships matters.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 08:30:52 PM by Gabloc »
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Omega_DarkPotato

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #397 on: September 22, 2022, 07:15:08 AM »

Balance is great and all but there's more than enough balanced mods out there - I just want to mess about with a power fantasy ship and blow things up.
I don't like Legio Infernalis all that much (the Dun Scaith's nice though, devastators on that thing let me turn it into a flak battery) and hivers are kinda ugly. (sorry!!)

I like UAF being unbalanced compared to the vanilla game, and in terms of the few "unbalanced" factions, I like UAF the most.
although I get that the constant cry for "balance" from portions of the community isn't a demand, I feel as though it's probably contributed to the lack of available power difference in terms of modded factions.

It's ok to have some strong or weak factions in the mix - it makes for a more diverse game experience.
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I live for ship-to-ship combat

Brainwright

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #398 on: September 22, 2022, 07:48:47 AM »

As for "always going to flux out": again, misleading at best. When you're a capital that can run multiple large and medium ballistics at flux neutral, it's much, much harder to flux out because you can use your entire, massive, capacity bar to absorb damage, and vent it off that much faster after it does build up, and enemy ships have a much harder time closing enough to use their weapons to begin with. Almost 30k effective shield HP that can be active vented in under 17 seconds (stripped Reisen(M) and Rillaru(SP) both do this) is a hell of a drug. Even if you aren't anywhere close to flux neutral, the difference between fluxing out in 20 seconds of combat instead of 10, or 40 instead of 20, requires no description.
[/spoiler]

But you don't have to read any of that. Instead, here's an extremely simple test.
1v1 autopilot stock Reisen(M) standard variant versus sim Onslaught; the question is not "who wins?" or even "how much hull damage does the Reisen take?" but "knowing only what was said in this thread, does anyone have to think for longer than three seconds to guess who wins?"

(Before you say it: The point is not that 1v1 sim is a realistic matchup or anything of the sort, the point is that regardless of any theorycrafting we might post here, everyone immediately understands what 'better dissipation than Radiant' means for a ship.

I've done this (Radiant vs Resisen (M)).  The Reisen(M) practically overfluxes itself, and adding a gamma core makes it a cakewalk.   This is why I think you're talking nonsense.  I'll post a vid later, if I can get the conversion right.

And a Reisen vs Onslaught comparison isn't reasonable.  Reisen simply excels in all the places the Onslaught doesn't.   It's faster, and I mean, it's actually got two large mounts pointed in the same direction!  Revolutionary!

The balance scheme he referred to just doesn't exist in Starsector. 

I think any ardent believer of the vanilla Starsector ship/fleet design can't not find a satisfying solution in this series of balancing debate, as essentially, UAF introduced a High-Tech faction with long-ranged, flux-efficient ballistic weapons and strong carrier-fighter support. The real issue is never to coerce someone to stick with the HighTech/Midline/LowTech system, but to think whether some design choices can be improved under the new framework introduced by the author.

I personably think you have gone to another extreme by claiming 'SS combat isn't balanced off of raw stats'. For me, at least the speed of the capital ships matters.

Yeah, speed is a valuable component of the ability to dissipate flux.  I don't really feel the need to reiterate it every statement.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 09:39:03 AM by Brainwright »
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Brainwright

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #399 on: September 22, 2022, 09:41:15 AM »

suggestion: if you wanna add peticularly spectacular things for loot how about archeology quests ?

maybe quests involving ships that were thought long gone or who had gone missing (think bermuda's triangle stuff)

maybe even a quest line that happens once you stumble on a chunk of one of the larger ships, and finding all the pieces rewards you with some blueprints...

We have a water planet called Favonius. What if for every 2 months you can pretend you're salvaging in the waters for hidden treasures ( RNG on watcha get ) ? For a small fee of course. We have a canon reason to why there's ship wrecks everywhere after all.

I've been thinking about this, and it might be better for the Roboqueen to spawn exploration-type missions to investigate lost Auroran fleets.
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HeWhoSalads

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #400 on: September 22, 2022, 04:18:37 PM »

Are there specific requirements for starting the Twisted Daggers missions? I swear I’ve googled everything I could, but I can’t seem to find any info.
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atokal

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #401 on: September 22, 2022, 06:13:38 PM »

Sorry for the trouble, but is there a written guide or overview of this mod I can find? I'd love to learn more about it and see what is available in game, like quests and how to aquire the super ships if its even possible!

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Histidine

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #402 on: September 22, 2022, 08:19:55 PM »

And a Reisen vs Onslaught comparison isn't reasonable.  Reisen simply excels in all the places the Onslaught doesn't.   It's faster, and I mean, it's actually got two large mounts pointed in the same direction!  Revolutionary!
So, you yourself have noticed that Reisen is an Onslaught with none of its weaknesses. Which is one of the things people normally mean by 'OP', so why is that claim in dispute again?

Also, saying it's unreasonable to compare the Reisen to the first vanilla analogue just about everyone will think of on sight is... a take.

Quote
I've done this (Radiant vs Resisen (M)).  The Reisen(M) practically overfluxes itself, and adding a gamma core makes it a cakewalk.   This is why I think you're talking nonsense.  I'll post a vid later, if I can get the conversion right.
I look forward to the explanation of how the vs. Radiant matchup – one I specifically did not cite – shows that anything I said (as opposed to being presumed to have said) is nonsense, unlike, say, the more pedestrian observation that Sabots and Reapers* are good actually.

*as part of a balanced ship fit

But now that you brought it up, I decided to try the matchups myself (Standard Reisen(M) versus the three vanilla Radiant variants, all unofficered)
- Standard Radiant wins with little?/no hull damage received
- Assault Radiant wins with 45-60% hull remaining
- Strike Radiant loses with little/no hull damage inflicted. An illustration of the limitations of relying on Sabots for all your hard flux, although an AI core's fearless personality might change how well this goes

A decent showing against one of the strongest vanilla ships, I'd say. I could try different variations (with comparable officers etc.) later, but I'm not sure there's a point if all it's going to be used for is to argue what should be completely uncontroversial points.

Are there specific requirements for starting the Twisted Daggers missions? I swear I’ve googled everything I could, but I can’t seem to find any info.
Go to the Lunamun bar while being Cooperative with UAF, that should be it
(if you're getting it for the first time, if you already encountered it and picked the wrong dialog options there may be complications)
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Ekental

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #403 on: September 22, 2022, 08:55:19 PM »

Are there specific requirements for starting the Twisted Daggers missions? I swear I’ve googled everything I could, but I can’t seem to find any info.

Lunamun, Aoi -> Take shuttle to the bars -> "A woman can be seen grieving alone at the far corner". I don't remember if you need rep with UAF however I didn't notice having the option till I was cooperative.

Sorry for the trouble, but is there a written guide or overview of this mod I can find? I'd love to learn more about it and see what is available in game, like quests and how to aquire the super ships if its even possible!

1st post of the thread in the middle is a long youtube overview:

Youtube overview

tl;dr this mod adds

  • 1 ballistic spam heavy faction consisting of a handful of systems in the bottom left by middle of the map.
  • ~90 portraits
  • 2-4 ships & weapons of each class and size
  • A handful of extra large capital ships
  • A few faction specific missions
  • Faction music & 3 baked goods
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 09:01:03 PM by Ekental »
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atokal

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Re: [0.9.51a-RC6][WIP] United Aurora Federation 0.72g1b / g1c_exp
« Reply #404 on: September 22, 2022, 09:03:09 PM »

Are there specific requirements for starting the Twisted Daggers missions? I swear I’ve googled everything I could, but I can’t seem to find any info.

Lunamun, Aoi -> Take shuttle to the bars -> "A woman can be seen grieving alone at the far corner". I don't remember if you need rep with UAF however I didn't notice having the option till I was cooperative.

Sorry for the trouble, but is there a written guide or overview of this mod I can find? I'd love to learn more about it and see what is available in game, like quests and how to aquire the super ships if its even possible!

1st post of the thread in the middle is a:

Youtube overview

I've watched it before and thought I got everything I needed from the video, but I rewatched and found it out, thanks!
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