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Author Topic: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5.1a  (Read 31644 times)

xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2017, 08:33:11 PM »

I'm just saving time so that I can spend it on making new stuff and getting releases out steadily :)
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2017, 03:49:31 AM »

But it wastes the time of others, for sure not much due to small file size but still it does. It also is going to cause some folks to just enable all of them without thinking about it much, and some of those mods... Have less than desirable effects on vanilla and mod content.


There is actually a serious recurring problem with your mods Xeno and it is time to talk about it. You create opt out systems (if it is even possible at all) never opt in systems, for all of your mods but Fx Mod and EZ Faction.

Rebalance Mod:
- Questionable balance changes overall but hey is your vision but...
- Changes OP points for some weapons, which screws up variants in vanilla and mods.
- That ship chunk clearer removes cover, and that is not good. If you really want to leave that in, make it a toggle in a config.ini that defaults to off IMO.


EZ Faction:
- This is a handy mod for newer modders and even is opt in!


FX Mod:
- This is handy mod for players with weaker computers, and even is opt in for modders!
- Subjectively, I don't think many of the new visuals look very good... Especially those smoke poofs, would look better IMO as just a more generic "space nuke" effect that is a bit closer to vanilla.


Explorer Society:
- Eh, it is a faction mod and is thus fine most likely but...
- I am not sure of the contour shield in it actually interacts properly with AOE and scripted damage weapons. I know the first version of it didn't.


AI Overhaul:
- Oh boy, this thing... Well, the main problem is that it very much not opt in at all.
- You should put in a mergeble .csv that modders can place in their mods so that it would only affect their faction content if they want it to.


Thar Be Dragons:
- The fleets it makes are way way too large and I am not a fan of how they spawn in either.
- Again, it needs to be opt in. It should only create faction fleets if the modder wants it to and later on there will be some "hidden" factions where this becomes actually a serious problem and not just annoying.


Single Ship (when it is gets released):
- Breaks hundreds (yes really) of mod scripts, and expected behavior of PD weapons etc.
- Fixing this should be done on your end through various methods, mainly I would make them fighters (not frigates with fighter collision class), and script a push force that doesn't allow them to cross over ship bounds or active shield arcs.
- Fixing this should not fall on other modders refactoring their existing scripts, testing them, and testing / writing future scripts around your system for all eternity.

xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2017, 09:22:06 AM »

Thank you for your feedback, it will get taken into consideration and applied where I feel it's appropriate :)
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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2017, 06:29:46 PM »

But it wastes the time of others, for sure not much due to small file size but still it does. It also is going to cause some folks to just enable all of them without thinking about it much, and some of those mods... Have less than desirable effects on vanilla and mod content.


There is actually a serious recurring problem with your mods Xeno and it is time to talk about it. You create opt out systems (if it is even possible at all) never opt in systems, for all of your mods but Fx Mod and EZ Faction.


Totally agreed. And Xeno, the binding of mods(heh) is really unpleasant. Like the rebalance mod, ai overhaul and thar be dragons, they totally break my game experience.   :-[
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2017, 08:02:36 PM »

They're all separate mods, though.  You just have to install the parts you want, and they're only turned on if you deliberately turn them on.  Not sure why this is remotely controversial, tbh.  I suppose the haters gotta hate, lol  ::)
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2017, 09:51:22 PM »

Your "haters" hate your mods Xeno, because you are the *only* modder that tramples on the work of other modders. You show virtually no respect or consideration to the work of anyone else, and blatantly ignore any form of advice or criticism 99% of time.

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2017, 09:58:16 PM »

Calling it hate is pretty strong. I don't hate your mods, I just can't imagine them adding anything positive to my game experience. It's not emotional, it doesn't rise to that level. They are just not for me, and the compatibility issues and neglect of best practices just makes it easier not to feel like I might be missing something.
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2017, 12:51:56 AM »

Well, I think it's fair to say that the issue of "special modded damage won't effect the Form Shield"... is now addressed :)
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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2017, 01:13:45 AM »

They're all separate mods, though.  You just have to install the parts you want, and they're only turned on if you deliberately turn them on.  Not sure why this is remotely controversial, tbh.  I suppose the haters gotta hate, lol  ::)
I mean this kind of 'bundle sales' is really really awful.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2017, 01:44:46 AM »

Well, I think it's fair to say that the issue of "special modded damage won't effect the Form Shield"... is now addressed :)

Uh no it isn't. As it is only addressed if every modder that scripts damage things etc uses your system. Which, isn't gonna happen, ever.

Xeno, when someone makes a special snowflake whatever system it is that modder's responsibility to design it in a manner that that plays nicely with everything else. What you just made is *still* an opt out system in effect but in its own way. And if it isn't possible to make it compatible on the end of the modder making the thing, then maybe it shouldn't actually be made to begin with.

Also, doing AOE via projectile spawning is... Wacky to say the least. It will not play nicely with some types of mod defenses that "eat" projectiles, it could (?) deal more damage to larger targets than smaller ones (very different from vanilla!), you could possibly get the spawned shots missing small targets (vanilla AOE is infallible), and projectile spawning is pretty expensive computationally.

xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2017, 01:59:12 AM »

This works well actually, and the performance impact wasn't bad when tested :)

In all seriousness, this is a problem with applyDamage() in the engine, where it really should have a callback in CombatEngineAPI() or in EveryFrameCombatPlugin().  This isn't exactly new news (to me, anyhow).
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2017, 02:02:21 AM »

Write your own fix then; this works well actually, and the performance impact wasn't bad when tested :)

No, and even if I did it still isn't a fix as it still would require every other modder to use such a system. Once again, the work falls on *you*. For all intents and purposes the mods are simply incompatible, and should be treated as such.

Anyways, why are you having such problems with your contour shields? Templars works fine, with pretty much everything. Maybe you should look into how those work, and ask Dr for permission to adapt parts of his system.

xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2017, 02:14:28 AM »

I did "do the work", and for you.  That's actually the proper fix.  The way the Form Shield works, that's the best way to address it.  I'm really sorry you don't understand how it works well enough to appreciate that I just solved your problem for you, ah well.

Anyhow, I can tell this isn't a productive or reasonable discussion.  I am going to have to ignore your posts for a while, sorry :)
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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2017, 02:26:32 AM »

No you didn't do the work for me, because I will not, repeat will not ever modify my scripts / content to work with something someone else makes when they could do it in a different manner that works with all other mods.
Rule #1 don't directly affect other mods ever :)

I understand the problems better than you do dude. For I get what they are, and you do not. You don't even understand the conceptual problems of the things you make, let alone the tech ones. Even when sometime tries to explain to you what both style of problems are.

Also, again Templar have a contour shield *that just works with everything*. So, if that system does, and your does not, then you are objectively wrong in saying your system is the best way to address it.


Anyways, whatever ignore me. Others will not, for it is clear to those that read this overall thread in a level headed manner who is in the wrong here. Hint, it is the guy that screws over every other mod, and often vanilla, something no one else does. But hey, it comes to this and so I *will* solve the problems in my own way! How unfortunate, after I spent a not insignificant amount of my time analyzing your mods so I could suggest fixes to them for I actually care about the health of the game and respect the mods other authors make.

xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 3a
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2017, 03:18:06 AM »

Quote
Templar have a contour shield *that just works with everything*
Yeah.  It looks like it's basically a similar idea to the Contour Shield from Vacuum, where it took damage and fixed it that game-frame, whereas the Form Shield doesn't take damage at all; it's kind of the point.

That's a computationally expensive approach to that problem.  It's not very practical for huge battles, which is why there was only ever one ship that had it in Vacuum.



I finally realized that what all your griping is about.  It's the game-wrecking shield-piercing mechanic I wrote, long, long ago, for EXI... because it's reliant on applyDamage() as it was written back then (not that that is the only way to do what it does, it was merely convenient).  There's a pretty easy fix for that.  Figure it out.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 03:24:50 AM by xenoargh »
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