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Author Topic: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -  (Read 5053 times)

Gothars

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Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« on: May 24, 2017, 04:49:28 AM »

So, I really like Iron mode and the challenge it provides. But since it is unforgiving, it can sometimes be frustrating, and then - I have to admit - I sometimes rage-quit combat with alt+F4. That way I erase my mistake without even wanting to, and the worth of the whole Iron run feels compromised. And admittedly, sometimes it might only be half out of frustration and half a conscious cheat in a moment of weakness.
I realize of course that there is no way to make the game immune to cheating, all I'm asking to make it harder to do accidentally/out of an impulse. Because hitting alt+F4 or ctrl+alt+del is a matter of three seconds, anything that takes longer (like save game editing) I could easily avoid/resist.


I think auto-saving before each battle would be a real drag, cause it would take a while. But maybe the game could just put a marker in the last save when a battle starts? Say the marker only gets deleted when the battle is resolved properly, otherwise the next time you load that save you start as if you'd have lost - with a frigate at a planet. (Maybe with some snippy text about you suddenly losing consciousness in your last battle^^)
Or just generally put that marker on Iron mode saves when they are loaded, and remove it only when "Save&Exit" is used.
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SCC

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 05:07:46 AM »

But maybe the game could just put a marker in the last save when a battle starts? Say the marker only gets deleted when the battle is resolved properly, otherwise the next time you load that save you start as if you'd have lost - with a frigate at a planet. (Maybe with some snippy text about you suddenly losing consciousness in your last battle^^)
It'd be nice if in such case battle would auto-resolve instead of total party wipeout, but I suspect that'd be hard to realistically do (doing it gamey doesn't sound right to me).

RawCode

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 06:09:34 AM »

i hope you understand, that instead of harder "ironman mode" you will get - any system fail - save lost instead.

game should allow single "do over" per battle, ever in ironman mode.
sadly, restrictions on RE for this game, prevent such kind of mods, but it's perfectly possible with very limited amount of coding.
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Gothars

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 06:43:04 AM »

i hope you understand, that instead of harder "ironman mode" you will get - any system fail - save lost instead.


Not lost, just "flagged", which could surely be removed manually if it's really necessary at some point. In my experience game crashing bugs are super rare in the stable releases of Starsector, so I'm not worried about those.
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Megas

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 06:54:58 AM »

Go all the way and make it Hardcore like in Diablo 2.  That is ultimately the point of Iron Man.  Deep down, you know you want (the risk and thrill) of PERMADEATH!  (Even the Jupiter Hell trailer is making permadeath a selling point.)  If you lose your save to power failure, it really hurts, but, oh well.  If you get attached to the game so badly, there is always playing Normal.  (This is why I do not play Iron Man, because it really is not.)
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Ordanen

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2017, 07:44:34 AM »

Please don't, I think it's up to the player to have the discipline to actually stay true to an Ironman run. Starting to fiddle with saves, deleting, marking, etc because you didn't actually keep a single save just seems like a road to a lot of headaches if something that's out of your control causes you to crash or lose power.
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ahrenjb

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 10:57:36 AM »

This would be too punitive in the event of a crash or something like that.

Ultimately, it seems that you're asking for a crutch to punish you for rage quitting. I don't believe that's something that lies within the responsibility of a single player game. Stick to your own rules, don't expect the game to force you to play the way you tell yourself you want to while doing whatever you can to circumvent it.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 12:19:55 PM »

I've never played Ironman but does that mode keep back up saves? If so, then wouldn't reverting to a backup be a way to circumvent it?
Also, if a game has any kind of "crash deleting save" prevention, it can usually be cheesed anyways by killing the process, which takes only a few seconds more to do than alt F4
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Gothars

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 12:59:32 PM »

Please don't, I think it's up to the player to have the discipline to actually stay true to an Ironman run. Starting to fiddle with saves, deleting, marking, etc because you didn't actually keep a single save just seems like a road to a lot of headaches if something that's out of your control causes you to crash or lose power.
Ultimately, it seems that you're asking for a crutch to punish you for rage quitting. I don't believe that's something that lies within the responsibility of a single player game. Stick to your own rules, don't expect the game to force you to play the way you tell yourself you want to while doing whatever you can to circumvent it.


With that logic you'd have to ask: why does the Iron mode exist at all? All it does is to prevent you exiting the game normally without saving. That's something you could also do by "sticking to your rules".

And I have to say, when I ask "give me a crutch to help my lack of self control" the suggestion "just have more self control" is pretty unhelpful.


I've never played Ironman but does that mode keep back up saves? If so, then wouldn't reverting to a backup be a way to circumvent it?
Also, if a game has any kind of "crash deleting save" prevention, it can usually be cheesed anyways by killing the process, which takes only a few seconds more to do than alt F4

Yes, it makes a back up. And to re-iterate, it's not about making it impossible, just about making it take more than literally one second. Process killing wouldn't help cheesing btw if there were a flag set beforehand.



I'd be totally OK with this just being an option in settings.json btw, so people who want to play Iron mode without worrying about crashes could have it their way, too.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 01:02:06 PM by Gothars »
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Alex

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 01:04:25 PM »

Real quick, since I'm heading out for a few: would a settings.json config for "disable alt-F4 while in iron mode" be good enough? Since then you'd have to task manager it, and that's a bit more involved.
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Gothars

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 01:37:55 PM »

It would sure help! Would have to see if its "good enough", I'm pretty fast with the task manager :D :-[

Have fun :)
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 02:18:35 PM »

It would sure help! Would have to see if its "good enough", I'm pretty fast with the task manager :D :-[

Have fun :)
Yeah, same here. I have my TM set to processes, sorted by highest meme usage. That would mean all I would have to do is Ctrl + Shift + Esc, Delete, Space or Enter.
However, I doubt there is much more that Alex can do to stop this
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Schwartz

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 02:20:27 PM »

For Gothars, Multiplayer mode is someone sitting next to him and slapping him on the fingers.

Sorry, it's just a funny suggestion. I wanna cheat but I don't wanna cheat? ;D
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Alex

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 02:23:26 PM »

(Makes a decent amount of sense to me. I can definitely relate to alt-f4ing in other iron-mode games and then feeling the save is no good from that point on.)
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SCC

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Re: Make cheating in iron mode - harder -
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 02:42:29 PM »

I think it's more about removing impulsiveness... I've rage quitted (or wanted to do that in other games) from quite many situations I could've actually still won if I carried on, but I did not enjoy the perspective of pyrrhic victory.
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