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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Disassemble Reassemble v1.6.9 - Another lovingly kitbashed ship pack!  (Read 414966 times)

MajorTheRed

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I got a question about design philosophy: you have made many more ships than actually present in the mod. I mostly remember several other versions of the Junker (2), the Vagrant (2-3) and a Vigileance (2). Have you replaced them because of sprite quality (don't think so), or because you had better design ideas, or because you set yourself a limit of how much ships you have in your mod?
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AxleMC131

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I got a question about design philosophy: you have made many more ships than actually present in the mod. I mostly remember several other versions of the Junker (2), the Vagrant (2-3) and a Vigileance (2). Have you replaced them because of sprite quality (don't think so), or because you had better design ideas, or because you set yourself a limit of how much ships you have in your mod?

All three reasons. :)

As my modding experience has evolved over time, so has my attention to balance and quality, and what I consider good and bad in both. So old ships are periodically going to get cleanups, overhauls or even straight-up get removed - and I ain't finished with those, I have a to-do list for that sort of thing.

As for quantity of ships, I have no "hard limit", but in its present state I'm loathe to add more ships to DaRa unless they're incredibly unique or fill a very niche role that's actually useful and entertaining. I have a big fear of Content Bloat, and I'm sure I've already passed a sensible margin of ship numbers somewhere down the line. If I get an excuse to remove an old, outdated ship (or at least concatenate it with another concept into something better), I'll most likely take it.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 09:11:30 PM by AxleMC131 »
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Nia Tahl

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To give my perspective on this, the main reasons for me to can a ship are the following:

1. It just didn't work well. Sometimes a design is just inherently unbalanced, unfun or simply looks too weird to really fit in with the rest. In such cases it's often best to just abandon the design unless for some reason a ton of people love it, maybe. Even then, I'd probably just remove it anyway and put the sprites on spiral arms for others to use.

2. Quality has fallen below standards. As you get better as a modder, you older work has a tendency of looking worse and worse in comparison. Some designs are worth updating or overhauling, but some others might just no longer fit in with the rest and aren't really worth the effort to keep around.

3. They become pointless and bloaty. Happens in faction mods more than in ship packs, but sometimes you just end up designing a new ship that fills the role of an older design better or in a more interesting fashion in which case keeping the older design around will just lead to bloat. This is how the Hubris got removed from Sylphon as the Eolia simply is a nicer alternative in my eyes.

4. I just simply don't like them so to the dumpster they go.
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My mods: Tahlan Shipworks - ScalarTech Solutions - Trailer Moments
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FreedomFighter

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I salvaged a Black Arrow and it has both carrier-specific D-Mod on it despite it doesn't have fighter bays. Is it because Black Arrow is a hull variant of another Arrow?

https://imgur.com/a/sxPGBP9

Pic and mod lists
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AxleMC131

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I salvaged a Black Arrow and it has both carrier-specific D-Mod on it despite it doesn't have fighter bays. Is it because Black Arrow is a hull variant of another Arrow?

Yeah, pretty sure that's the exact reason. Vanilla's a bit weird with hullmod conflicts in such situations - it seems it bases available D-mods (and compatible hullmods for that matter) on the base hull rather than the skin. (I believe this is the same issue that caused InventorRaccoon's drone-equipped Mule (M) to sometimes spawn with Converted Hangar in Dynasector, but the extra fighter bay to be empty. The Mule (M) was a skin with a fighter bay added by hullmod.) I might make a suggestion for changing that actually.
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DatonKallandor

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Clearly the solution is to give the Black Arrow a Terminator Drone.
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AxleMC131

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HAH! 8)
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qsewww

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?good
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PyroFuzz

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Re: [0.9a] Disassemble Reassemble v1.6.4 - Another lovingly kitbashed ship pack!
« Reply #248 on: February 09, 2019, 07:57:35 AM »

When do we get a Pirate Arrow with a large mount xp
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.9a] Disassemble Reassemble v1.6.4 - Another lovingly kitbashed ship pack!
« Reply #249 on: February 09, 2019, 02:29:12 PM »

Heh. Never, that would be insane. The pirates use the regular version.
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.9a] Disassemble Reassemble v1.6.5 - Another lovingly kitbashed ship pack!
« Reply #250 on: February 22, 2019, 02:41:14 PM »

Minor Update - Version 1.6.5

Just a little fix for the Black Arrow, and a damage buff (plus extra eye-candy) for the Enigma.

Oh, and Vesperon compatibility.  ;)

As always, check the OP for more details, and enjoy!
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SCC

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A bit of feedback.

   Firebirds — Damn, those things are nasty! Despite individual missiles not dealing much damage, they tend to deal it from unexpected directions.
   Overclocked fighters — While not bad, they aren't really a game changer. The most issues I had with them were when I attempt soloing things with a Tempest, where getting rid of carriers with them becomes the top priority. That said, overclocked tridents are certainly better than piranhas.
   Rogue Interceptor — Generally speaking, a fast fighter with HE damage is going to be tricky to balance. I already got one of them nerfed a bit, so for now I will wait a bit more. That said, I don't really think it's an interceptor, it's not going to deal with fighters and missiles any time soon with assault chainguns. It's more like an assault fighter.
   Warhammer — It's pretty hard to use. From my experience, it's more a brick that distracts enemy ships from it, rather than the hammer. It doesn't have enough weaponry to make it scary. But then again, its weaponry already is pushing the limits of what you can put on a fighter.

   Mirage — A well made early game pirate opponent, could replace Wolf (P) for me.
   Trebuchet — For a combat troop transport, not bad, not bad. Starting with it turns very quickly into bullying smaller colonies, especially Nomios. Thanks for converging rear turrets!
   Prophecy — Funnily enough, it's basically a cheaper Scarab. Considering that Scarab's main issue is that it's overpriced, it makes Prophecy a very decent escort or strike frigate. Prophecy mark II is even better. If it's supposed to be a straight upgrade, it's fine, but if it's supposed to be a sidegrade, it could probably use some shield efficiency nerf.
   Acanthina — I like drone tender the most, it's decent at distracting and provides early game fighter support as well. Gunship looks neat, but AI has trouble converging small energy turrets together; it's better to rely on simply outranging the enemy instead, with a beam or an HVD. Missile variant is too short-lived for my tastes and freighter's a freighter. I think you might want to make energy turrets a bit easier to use for, mainly because AI has difficulty with that.
   Quoin — Pretty anvil-ish frigate. I'm not sure about built-in ECM package, but it doesn't seem overpowered. I have a note about the support variant: graviton and ion beam should switch their positions, it's more important to keep the ion beam on target, than graviton.
   Brawler mk II — I wouldn't choose it over a normal Brawler, but the fact that it beats Mudskipper at frigate freighter efficiency made me chuckle. So did the fact that it's better to have just one weapon instead of two, as the other one will just get disabled permanently sooner or later. Your last weapon can't ever get disabled permanently and if you have just one weapon, it's always your last weapon.
   Gladiator — The best of both the Brawler and the Lasher. Pretty vulnerable, but can do some real damage if allowed. I don't think it's side hardpoint has to be composite, it could be missile just fine. It might be a bit of a nerf to SO builds, but it's already a pretty good ship.
   Insurgent — My favourite phase frigate at the moment, unleashing heavy blaster on unawares is really fun.

Hrothgar

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Warhammer have problem that most of it weapons are very bad against ships (light mortars, vulcans, swarmers). There are other superheavy fighters which have much less weapon systems but more  dangerous. I dont had a chance to use Luddic Warhammer though...
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AxleMC131

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A bit of feedback...

Firebirds: These little guys I keep wanting to nerf because on paper they seem so damn powerful. But I keep trying to look for a weak point in their balance somewhere, and I keep not finding it. XD If you can give me an excuse to nerf them, I probably will, but for now yeah they're damn cool.

Overclocked fighters: They're mostly supposed to be budget options, but they're also partially novelty items so I'm not too bothered about that. The main reason I tried to spice up their weapons from their base fighters was to keep them as sidegrades rather than straight downgrades. When you say Overclocked Trident, do you mean Dagger?

Rogue: I agree with your concerns about a fast HE fighter, but I'm also quite confident in the Rogue's balance measures. It recently got a small buff, but with a corresponding increase in OP cost. While it isn't a true Interceptor it really falls into the same role as the Thunder does (and matches up with it very well in fact).

Warhammer: All sounds about right for what I wanted from it. :D It's about as un-super as I could make a superfighter.

Mirage: Awesome, making a ship that's fun to fight is always an achievement.

Trebuchet: Hehe, yeah I might nerf it further at some point, the early game raiding is damn strong with it.

Prophecy: Sounds about right for this one too, it's mean to be a dedicated escort boat, more-so an Omen alternative than a Scarab downgrade, but whichever works for you. (The Mk.II is definitely a straight upgrade, it's supposed to be a sort of mini-boss pirate ship, and salvaging one should be considered a reward to the player.)

Acanthina: Hmm, wider turret arcs aren't a bad idea. The M version might seem a little underwhelming, but I'd rather not change that since missile frigates are tricky to balance. The pirate version is just a pirate version, doesn't have to be particularly clever. ;)

Quoin: Glad the balance is working out. I wasn't rightly sure how to make a heavy frigate for high-tech, but I think the Quoin fills the role particularly well. I'll see about shifting the variant weapons around if you like, but it's not a major concern for me - personally I'd rather have my high-flux weapons in direct control and low-flux on an autofiring turret.

Brawler Mk.II: Weird little bits of minmaxing you can do there with Ill-Advised, yeah. :P Still, that sounds like it's about where I want it in terms of balance and role. By frigate freighter efficiency, do you mean using Repurposed Fighter Bays?

Gladiator: Also exactly what it's supposed to be. I'll think about the composite mount though.

Insurgent: Yas, she's a fun ship.
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SCC

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The thing about firebirds is that they have HE sabots with extra prejudice thrown in. Besides a little OP increase and universal bomber reinforce time nerf, I don't see anything to hit, either.

Feedback II: Destroyer Boogaloo

   Vagrant — it's a good early ship. There's yet space to improve with proper destroyers, but it's not completely terrible, either. I don't know how durable armour module is supposed to be, but it's nice that you can stick both reinforced bulkheads and heavy armour if you have LD3.
   Manta — that's a ship that I haven't used much, honestly. It's a good thing to have non-converted hangar fighter bay on a cruiser, though, especially for some strike capability in a pinch. Pirate version is is properly kool and the ship system is better than normal burn drive, cushioning a bit the loss of a fighter bay.
   Seraphim — I'd argue that it shouldn't have active flares, but something else. Why? Because It already has a plethora of mounts that are basically shoehorned into PD. Besides that, I'm not sure if 0.6 shield efficiency is justified. I've done a good job keeping them away from the frontline, so maybe I overestimate its defensive capabilities. I use it mainly as a bigger Quoin.
   Civilian Gemini — I don't like that one at all. I don't think Gemini has to have a civilian variant. It's a combat freighter.
   Gypsy Moth — Jesus Christ

   Harrier — this one is a solid cruiser, which despite being an anvil can still hurt a plenty. I'm not really sure I get what this section between the large turret and the bridge is supposed to be. Maybe if it was darker, or if the triangle bit around the turret was darker, it would make more sense to me.
   Bull — will we ever see the other half of the ship it was made of? Or, at least, the ship it was converted from. I'd buff it to make it more of a sidegrade to 2 condors, instead of a downgrade, but I guess that big cargo bays and more fighter wings benefiting from one officer is enough, and two medium ballistic turrets.
   Retribution — get a railgun or four and you too can delete everything with a simple key press! I'm not sure how to feel about its composite hardpoints. On one hand, making them ballistic would still be pretty attractive because of AAF. On the other, that's still 4 small missiles on a cruiser that also has the AAF is nothing to sneeze at. I will probably one way or another cause you to nerf it, so I better savour the goodness while it lasts! Oh, there's a pather version as well, but it costs you 2 mediums and AAF, so...

I will probably make yet another post, even if its content would be only thoughts about the Outlander, but I have to play it in a different way than just "spam gravitons and gatling lance and BEEEM everything into submission".
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