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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: A Tale of Two Tech Levels (05/28/21)

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Author Topic: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?  (Read 23207 times)

SCC

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #75 on: May 14, 2017, 02:33:51 PM »

How does it hammers you? It doesn't give you any malus to anybody (besides pirates who would most probably attack you anyway...), just a bonus to one faction. You're free to ignore that bonus and go work for somebody else.
I think that renaming tutorial to something else would be beneficial, considering people's opinions here...

Cik

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #76 on: May 14, 2017, 02:35:44 PM »

what it's called doesn't really matter, but it takes control away from the player and forces them to go through a thing they may not need to go through.

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Alex

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #77 on: May 14, 2017, 02:45:44 PM »

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it swim. This person you're imagining, if indeed they are so limited, will end up being frustrated with starsector no matter what you do. It's not the simplest game, you know? Your concern for this hypothetical person seems fastidious.

I don't see the person that benefits from this the same way that you do. To me, it's a normal person that thinks "bah, I don't want to do a tutorial, I'll just figure it out". I can see myself being that person. And I'd be momentarily annoyed at not being able to skip the tutorial, but would then do it and have a better experience for it overall. Or I'd skip it (via the save/start again method) but then I'd be mentally primed for things going bad due to a lack of understanding.

Given how easy it is to work around, the change where it'll remember that you did it across installs, and just the general nature of the tutorial... frankly, I don't think I'm the one being overly, as you say, "fastidious" :)
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AxleMC131

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2017, 02:52:56 PM »

I don't see the person that benefits from this the same way that you do. To me, it's a normal person that thinks "bah, I don't want to do a tutorial, I'll just figure it out". I can see myself being that person. And I'd be momentarily annoyed at not being able to skip the tutorial, but would then do it and have a better experience for it overall. Or I'd skip it (via the save/start again method) but then I'd be mentally primed for things going bad due to a lack of understanding.

Which brings us rather smoothly to: How do you know you don't like the tutorial if you've never tried it?

You aren't losing anything by playing the tutorial. Nothing, except perhaps a little time from your real-world life. It's not like the game says "Oh by the way, if you play this tutorial everyone on the forums will start calling you a n00b." And it's not like the tutorial is a drag or a pain to do - not for me anyway. It's fun. It's exciting. It's informative. And it tells a story.

nomadic_leader seems to be under the impression that the tutorial is something "obstructing" people from enjoying the game. I firmly believe that this is not the case.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2017, 03:15:59 PM »

Given how easy it is to work around, the change where it'll remember that you did it across installs, and just the general nature of the tutorial... frankly, I don't think I'm the one being overly, as you say, "fastidious" :)

Well yes, there is that. Some of us just feel strongly about our right to dive into opaque waters and struggle to figure out which way is up.

Hey everyone- I have tried the tutorial (i made an entire thread complaining about it), and it is well made, and i think their should be more optional quests like this for various factions in the game. It was actually enjoyable except that it railroads you into playing for a particular faction and really messes up your relationship with the pirates if you don't sneak around them to get to the gate. The tutorial should also emphasize sneaking skills a bit more.
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K-64

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2017, 03:19:55 PM »

I really don't see why people are making such a big issue of this. Unless you have some ritual of reinstalling the game every time you want to start a playthrough, it's really a trivial issue. Like treating it as some sort of mortal sin is just... baffling. Truly baffling.
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Alex

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #81 on: May 14, 2017, 03:23:31 PM »

... and i think their should be more optional quests like this for various factions in the game. ...

Yep, on the same page here - I'm happy with how that turned out (even if it was a *ton* of work); also - fair point re: pirate rep, had made a note about that earlier.
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736b

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #82 on: May 14, 2017, 04:09:02 PM »

I really don't see why people are making such a big issue of this. Unless you have some ritual of reinstalling the game every time you want to start a playthrough, it's really a trivial issue. Like treating it as some sort of mortal sin is just... baffling. Truly baffling.

Not reinstalling, but I do delete old saves.
Though if the game will remember that I've done it with the next version, I'm fine with it.
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Thaago

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #83 on: May 14, 2017, 04:40:02 PM »

... and i think their should be more optional quests like this for various factions in the game. ...

Yep, on the same page here - I'm happy with how that turned out (even if it was a *ton* of work); also - fair point re: pirate rep, had made a note about that earlier.

Speaking of, I found (some of) the dialogs for the tutorial in the rules.csv - is the rest of the coding for it somewhere in the files we can access? It would be nice to be able to see it as an example of a fully coded interactive mission.
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Alex

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #84 on: May 14, 2017, 04:56:13 PM »

CampaignTutorialScript (for the early parts, before the mission kicks in) and then TutorialMissionEvent. Both in com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.tutorial. There's also a bunch of dialog plugins in that package, for the various "go scavenge" "use Sustained Burn" etc dialogs.
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Embolism

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #85 on: May 14, 2017, 07:33:22 PM »

Regardless of how Alex feels about his income, my personal opinion?

Insisting on a change that will save you at most a few seconds of your life (and your worthless gamer pride or whatever this is) at the cost of Alex's potential income is selfish. I'm honestly quite appalled people feel so strongly about this issue.

As people have pointed out the tutorial is well-made and Alex and co have obviously put a lot of time and effort into it. It's essentially a story mission. Insisting that new players will definitely hate it is also presumptuous and frankly, rude.

I also have serious doubts any of the complainers are still being affected by this issue unless you're constantly reinstalling StarSector or constantly failing at Ironman (Alex's got you covered here), which adds even more head-scratching to why people are still complaining given none of you are actually new.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 07:39:01 PM by Embolism »
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AxleMC131

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #86 on: May 14, 2017, 07:42:35 PM »

Regardless of how Alex feels about his income, my personal opinion?

Insisting on a change that will save you at most a few seconds of your life (and your worthless gamer pride or whatever this is) at the cost of Alex's potential income is selfish. I'm honestly quite appalled people feel so strongly about this issue.

As people have pointed out the tutorial is well-made and Alex and co have obviously put a lot of time and effort into it. It's essentially a story mission. Insisting that new players will definitely hate it is also presumptuous and frankly, rude.

I also have serious doubts any of the complainers are still being affected by this issue unless you're constantly reinstalling StarSector or constantly failing at Ironman (Alex's got you covered here), which adds even more head-scratching to why people are still complaining given none of you are actually new.

*Applauds Embolism for having the guts to say what I'm thinking*
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #87 on: May 14, 2017, 08:20:49 PM »

Regardless of how Alex feels about his income, my personal opinion?

Insisting on a change that will save you at most a few seconds of your life (and your worthless gamer pride or whatever this is) at the cost of Alex's potential income is selfish. I'm honestly quite appalled people feel so strongly about this issue.

But you see, we're consumers, not Alex' booster club. We pay for a game, and we therefore want it to be according to our own predilections. I'm not paying to join a tight-knit community of admirers (though the developer seems like a good sort of fellow). It is capitalism, comrade. I didn't think paying for a game marked the start of an altruistic undertaking.

I don't assume most players will hate the tutorial; most will probably like it. I just say they should be given the choice of whether or not to do it. Insisting that they not be able to make this choice is at least as extreme as whatever opinions I've got.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #88 on: May 14, 2017, 08:21:57 PM »

Regardless of how Alex feels about his income, my personal opinion?

Insisting on a change that will save you at most a few seconds of your life (and your worthless gamer pride or whatever this is) at the cost of Alex's potential income is selfish. I'm honestly quite appalled people feel so strongly about this issue.

As people have pointed out the tutorial is well-made and Alex and co have obviously put a lot of time and effort into it. It's essentially a story mission. Insisting that new players will definitely hate it is also presumptuous and frankly, rude.

I also have serious doubts any of the complainers are still being affected by this issue unless you're constantly reinstalling StarSector or constantly failing at Ironman (Alex's got you covered here), which adds even more head-scratching to why people are still complaining given none of you are actually new.

*Applauds Embolism for having the guts to say what I'm thinking*
*joins in as well*
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The Soldier

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #89 on: May 14, 2017, 08:46:32 PM »

@Embolism
I got your back on that one.
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