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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: A Tale of Two Tech Levels (05/28/21)

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Author Topic: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?  (Read 23210 times)

Embolism

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2017, 12:33:34 PM »

Bear in mind that there's only a few of us who've played the game over and over, and we will be vastly outnumbered by players who've never even heard of SS come release day.

I'm quite happy to "suffer the inconvenience" of a forced tutorial if it means we get less "WTF GAME EXPLAINS NAHTHING" negative reviews on Steam by idiots. And you can downvote idiots all you like, their negative review will continue to affect the game's rating.
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SCC

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2017, 12:48:51 PM »

I guess than one additional reason is that we can provide feedback for tutorial if we play it and Alex had no guarantee that we'd play it at all if we weren't forced.

zaimoni

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2017, 03:31:33 PM »

Are the derelict ships in tutorial random or fixed?
The types are fixed, but the exact d-mods appear to be controlled by the game's starting seed (have not verified personally, I know they're static for my constant starting seed but Bay12 reports are that they are random).
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10900209

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2017, 08:29:36 PM »

Is the tutorial forced?  I didn't have to do it.  I would have been very unhappy to be forced to do a tutorial.
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RawCode

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2017, 09:35:01 PM »

start game with tutorial, save and exit, it will allow to skip it, but only as long as atleast one save exists.

personally i instantly mod tutorial out, not ever bothered with saves and stuff, single change inside rules.csv and there is no more tutorial.
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Embolism

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2017, 09:46:35 PM »

I think the fact all you experienced players have ways to avoid the forced tutorial is a sign that it's fine as it is. The forced aspect is for players who don't know ways to avoid it, so the game can avoid unnecessary negative reviews.

The only thing I'd change is to not give the option to skip the tutorial before the first game so idiots don't cry about "fake choices".
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RawCode

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2017, 11:18:38 PM »

I think the fact all you experienced players have ways to avoid the forced tutorial is a sign that it's fine as it is. The forced aspect is for players who don't know ways to avoid it, so the game can avoid unnecessary negative reviews.

The only thing I'd change is to not give the option to skip the tutorial before the first game so idiots don't cry about "fake choices".

make something bad and explain on forum how to avoid it?
well, it's very similar to very old type of copy protection and this is not good thing.

with same luck you can remove difficulty and ship selection to prevent noobs from picking normal or "wrong" ships.
same can happen with skills, to prevent noobs maxing affinity instead of picking actual skills.
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Embolism

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2017, 11:34:42 PM »

I think the fact all you experienced players have ways to avoid the forced tutorial is a sign that it's fine as it is. The forced aspect is for players who don't know ways to avoid it, so the game can avoid unnecessary negative reviews.

The only thing I'd change is to not give the option to skip the tutorial before the first game so idiots don't cry about "fake choices".

make something bad and explain on forum how to avoid it?
well, it's very similar to very old type of copy protection and this is not good thing.

with same luck you can remove difficulty and ship selection to prevent noobs from picking normal or "wrong" ships.
same can happen with skills, to prevent noobs maxing affinity instead of picking actual skills.

The tutorial makes a good first impression. All the complaints here are from people whose first impression of the game was years ago. Of course we find it unnecessary.

Please keep in mind that Alex has to make money, and a lot of that hinges on first impression reviews. Alex already got our money, I think we can put up with this "inconvenience" for the sake of his future sales.



I didn't like the forced tutorial myself when I first saw it but I got over it within 10 seconds by, you know, starting a new game. For Alex a few seconds of "wasted time" from people who already brought the game is a small "price" to pay if it means just one less stupid negative Steam review.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 11:37:46 PM by Embolism »
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RawCode

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2017, 03:49:05 AM »

you must complete tutorial EVERY time you start game without existing save, EVERY TIME.

reinstalled game - forced to do tutorial
other computer - tutorial
play ironman with save wipe on defeat - tutorial
lost save for any other reason - tutorial

yes tutorial is fun, but only single time in entire life.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2017, 04:39:39 AM »

It kinda surprises me how strong people's opinions are on this topic, especially considering the tutorial is vital to learning the new features and mechanics of the game - you can't honestly expect me to believe you're just going to guess how everything works and do fine.  ::)

Personally I played through the tutorials several times before I started skipping it in new saves, and that was only because I was testing mod-related stuff and wanted to get to that quicker. I adore the tutorial - even if it still needs a little cleanup - and I wouldn't have the current game any other way.
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Embolism

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2017, 05:32:00 AM »

It kinda surprises me how strong people's opinions are on this topic

Agreed. At this point I'm half-expecting someone to babble "fix this Alex or I'll never buy another game from you ever again!"

That said, having the game remembering if you've done the tutorial or not without having active saves wouldn't hurt (the Ironman thing is a good point). I don't see a good reason to cater to rarer occurrences like reinstalling or switching computers or whatever though.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 05:34:38 AM by Embolism »
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RawCode

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2017, 05:38:54 AM »

simple fix and everyone will be happy

if player set ironman - tutorial is skippable ever without saves, fair and simple.

position "fix or iam out" is wrong and counter productive, but, forced mandatory tutorials are bad design.
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Cosmitz

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2017, 07:21:07 AM »

It's a 30 minute tutorial which goes over two new and important campaign features and one important item. All your arguements as to why 'an experienced player' wouldn't need to go through it at least once are baseless, and even if, the 30 minute tutorial is an easy thing for anyone that has played before.

If you /want/ the hard start, just start a new game after saving the tutorial character. If you're moving installs, you should know that the game looks for a save before unlocking the non-tutorial start.

If the tutorial were three hours of the experience and glitchy to progress through, i could understand the issues but as it stands? There is no reason to whine and moan.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 07:23:33 AM by Cosmitz »
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736b

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2017, 08:40:16 AM »

It's a 30 minute tutorial which goes over two new and important campaign features and one important item. All your arguements as to why 'an experienced player' wouldn't need to go through it at least once are baseless, and even if, the 30 minute tutorial is an easy thing for anyone that has played before.

If you /want/ the hard start, just start a new game after saving the tutorial character. If you're moving installs, you should know that the game looks for a save before unlocking the non-tutorial start.

If the tutorial were three hours of the experience and glitchy to progress through, i could understand the issues but as it stands? There is no reason to whine and moan.

Sure there is a reason. It's annoying and pointless to have a forced tutorial.
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K-64

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Re: Why MUST we play the tutorial first?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2017, 09:10:32 AM »

It's not pointless though. It ensures that new players actually do the damn tutorial rather than skipping because "lel i know it all" and then complaining on the forums with "halp how i move" ad nauseum.
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